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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: FaultLine who wrote (125202)2/27/2004 12:22:51 PM
From: Neocon  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 281500
 
You are quite right, everyone makes assumptions, no one has perfect knowledge, and we all make mistakes. On the other hand, there is a high degree of reliability in the basic operations of the informed mind. For example, I know how to drive all over the DC area; I know how to make reservations for airplanes, trains, hotels, and shows on- line; and I am so good at estimating travel times that I have not been late for an appointment in years, and then, only by ten minutes. Thus, observing one's own performance, or the performance of those around you, one comes to repose a certain level of trust. I trust my wife, not only morally, but assessing her competence, to a very high degree, for example.

Within this context, there are things one has a high degree of confidence in, and against which one judges the reliability of others. For example, I know a lot about art, especially modern art. Someone might know a fair amount, and have a valid opinion on the subject, and not know who Andre Derain is. However, I would be very skeptical of the competence of someone to opine on modern art who does not know who Matisse, Pollack, Duchamp, and Warhol are.

Similarly, one compares one's experience and the inferences that can be drawn with the assertions of others. For example, in my dealings with federal and state agencies, I have generally been served as well or better than when inquiring about something from a corporation, so I am generally skeptical of libertarian assertions that government stinks and privatization is always better.

As a resident of the Washington area, I periodically see demonstrations, both small and large, downtown. The last couple of large anti- war demonstration wore the air of a big carnival, full of street vendors and people eating soft pretzels, full of costumery (getting out the old hippie duds) and music (I saw a few troubadors). I do not mean that the people were not sincere, I mean that the very circumstances of their public assembly belied the idea that the government was taking a nose- dive into fascism.

My brother is married to an African- American woman, and they have three children. They travel a fair amount, little vacations to New York or Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. They are never treated badly, nor are they made to feel uncomfortable, with one possible exception from a waitress in Boston. This jibes with my observation of inter- racial couples I have seen in places like beach resorts, and also with my experience when my wife and I are babysitting their children and taking them out. America is a far less racist country than it was when I was a child.

In these and other ways, granting that my impressions are not scientifically verified, and could be mistaken in some way, nevertheless, I find that the observed world is a particular way, and that some are inhabiting either a different world, or not paying attention to what is around them.



To: FaultLine who wrote (125202)2/27/2004 3:25:49 PM
From: Sully-  Read Replies (7) | Respond to of 281500
 
Believe what you wish. I'll stick to reality. Tell me
folks on this thread didn't make any of these claims or
post articles making these claims......

Bush lied about WMD's

Bush misled on WMD's

Analysts were pressured to change judgments to meet the needs of the Bush administration

inniment threat canard (multiple variations)

Blair "sexed up" pre-Iraqi war intelligence

no WMD's found - therefore removing Saddam unjustified

rush to war (Iraq)

no UN approval (Iraq)

was plenty of evidence of Saddam's inclination to comply with UN resolutions

quagmire (Iraq)

bogged down (Iraq)

humanitarian crisis (both Afghanistan & Iraq)

many thousands of innocent civilians slaughtered (both Afghanistan & Iraq)

civilians intentionally targeted (both Afghanistan & Iraq)

if we go to War in Iraq, there will be a dramatic increase in terrorist attacks globally

illegal war (Iraq)

Uday and Qusay murdered

Baghdad will be like Stalingrad

Saddam had no ties to terrorists (multiple variations)

Bush knew about 9/11 before it happened & did nothing

Bush betrayed America

Iraq war pre-ordained by Bush before 9/11

Iraq campaign was "cooked up" by Bush in Texas, pre 9/11

Bush's PNAC plan for imperialism & global domination (multiple variations)

Iraq war all about oil

Cheney - Haliburton connections (multiple variations)

Haliburton (pick your lie - multiple variations)

Cronyism in Iraq (multiple variations)

Scott Ritter's anti-Bush & pro-Iraq stance considered credible

American foreign policy is now driven more by Israel

Bush AWOL

Bush deserted

George W. Bush and his henchmen stole the presidency(multiple variations)

Bush appointed President by SCOTUS

Bush is a moron

Bush is an idiot

Bush (or an Admin official) called (insert name) unpatriotic

anyone who questions Bush is a traitor &/or unpatriotic

Bush proposes ban on gay marriage

a White House that openly harbors traitors

This libel, this smear, calling any dissenter a traitor, these are McCarthite methods of debate.

When any American soldier is fighting anywhere, only cowards and traitors will criticize the President

This comes from the core ethical belief, that anyone who is unwilling to kill, is either a coward or a traitor. The litmus test of patriotism and courage, is whether you are willing to cheer every proposal for Americans to kill non-Americans

how long before the Bush administration calls David Kay a traitor?

so boring for Nadine to, once again, call me a fascist, coward, and traitor

As long as you are a neocon, you can be a convicted criminal, a liar, a traitor, a con artist or a dupe and yet wrap yourself in the flag and spout hubris about freedom and democracy and send young Americans to die in Iraq to fulfill your dreams of ME conquest and personal fortunes to come.

The Peace movement is labelled as subversives, traitors, weaklings.

So it was predictable that the administration and its allies, no longer very successful at claiming that questioning the President is unpatriotic, would use appeals to good manners as a way to silence critics.

For Bush officials, who have wielded patriotism as a bludgeon on critics

Yet it's almost certainly wrong to think that the political exploitation of 9/11 and, more broadly, the administration's campaign to label critics as unpatriotic are past their peak.

The Soviets would take people who didn't "think correct thoughts", label them as insane, put them away forever in asylums and Gulags. There are many Americans who think the same kind of thing should be done, to the unpatriotic "wrong thinkers" here.

What George W. Bush and company did was unpatriotic – they sent young Americans
off to fight for this country while stabbing them in the backs.

It is you who are unpatriotic, blindly championing a losing policy that weakens the nation, and will lead us to defeat if we don't change it.

etc., etc., etc.........