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Politics : Politics for Pros- moderated -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: unclewest who wrote (32418)	2/29/2004 8:37:17 PM
From: LindyBill	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 793670

Here's a rally demonstration you would have joined, UW. Vets rally outside Kerry's city HQ BY WIL CRUZ Staff Writer - Newsday February 28, 2004, 6:14 PM EST With only three days to go before Tuesday's Democratic primary, Vietnam veterans rallied Saturday outside Sen. John Kerry's campaign headquarters in Manhattan — but a Band of Brothers they were not. Side by side with a coalition of Vietnamese-Americans from across the country, members of the Vietnam Veterans Against John Kerry chanted "Commander-in-Chief Kerry? No Way!" under banners and signs decrying the Democratic front-runner as a traitor. "He betrayed us. He stabbed us in the back," Jerry Kiley, 57, co-founder of the ad hoc group, screamed to the crowd of about 400 people packed on Park Avenue South. "We will never allow him to be our commander-in-chief. Ever!" Veteran after veteran passionately lambasted Kerry, a decorated veteran of the Vietnam war, for, among other things, his testimony to Congress in 1971 that detailed alleged atrocities committed by U.S. soldiers in Vietnam. Kiley said his group, which was formed three weeks ago, plans to rally at the Democratic convention in Boston in July if Kerry wins the nomination. Equally fervent in their disdain for Kerry were the Vietnamese-Americans, who hold the senator from Massachusetts responsible for thrice blocking a bill in 2001 and 2002 that would have tied U.S. aid to Vietnam to that country's human rights record. "Sen. John Kerry has been working with the dictatorship in Vietnam," said Nam Pham, 48, a banker from Boston who is working with the Massachusetts Human Rights Commission for Vietnam. "He lost the moral authority to lead the free world." Both groups said they considered themselves non-partisan, and said that they are not backing another candidate, only that they want to prevent Kerry from winning the White House. The rally was one of several harbingers to Tuesday's primary. Volunteers for Sen. John Edwards of North Carolina handed out fliers and formed small rallies at different points in the city. Even Howard Dean supporters came out for him. At Union Square, about 30 backers of the former Vermont governor, who has exited the race, said they were throwing their weight behind Edwards. "Edwards is far more electable," said Rego Park resident Alex Munoz, 24, a Republican who previously worked on Dean's campaign. "He's the candidate who is closest to Dean's message." And if Edwards loses to Kerry, said Wayne Batcheler, 62, an attorney who worked on Dean's campaign, then he'll work for Kerry. "I'll be campaigning for him," Batcheler, of Chelsea, said. "We just need to beat George Bush." Far from the main campaign trail, meanwhile, other politicians and activists worked the side streets and corners of the city for their candidates. Assemb. Michael Gianaris and City Councilman Eric Gioia, both Democrats who support Kerry, had about a dozen people handing out leaflets at Steinway Street and Broadway in Astoria. People who stopped sometimes asked if Kerry was going to be there, but Gioia and Gianaris had to tell them he would not. "Actually, he's going to be on television tomorrow," Gioia told one elderly women. Edwards and Kerry, along with the Rev. Al Sharpton and Rep. Dennis Kucinich, are scheduled to debate at 11 a.m. today. Staff writer William Murphy contributed to this story. Copyright © 2004, Newsday, Inc.

To: unclewest who wrote (32418)	3/1/2004 8:45:02 AM
From: michael97123	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 793670

"They were on the verge of liberating the countries of S Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos from the clutches of oppressive and violent communism but were pulled just as the job was nearing completion..." I agree with your sentiments almost entirely but i do consider this statement a bit of a stretch. When were they on the verge of this liberation in terms of timeframe? Was it a matter of just time or was further escalation needed? And if it were time, how much and at what cost to all sides? And if it were a matter of further escalation, how much and at what costs to all sides. The fellow who made the documentary on vietnam/macnamara talked about a rathole. Its the old good money after bad argument. Each situation is different but i too conside(ed) vietnam a rathole and i doubt we would have been able to win that war at that time unless we had WW2 popular support which we didnt. Iraq is different i think and i hope. After vietnam i am never certain until after the fact. Mike