To: IQBAL LATIF who wrote (45752 ) 3/16/2004 6:57:52 PM From: Bilow Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 50167 Hi IQBAL LATIF; Re: ""Eight paramilitary soldiers embraced shahadat (martyrdom) and 15 have sustained injuries during the operation", near Wana in South Waziristan tribal territory, Brigadier Mahmood Shah told. "We believe that 24 foreign and local militants have been killed, but so far only two bodies have been recovered," said Shah, the security chief of the federally administrated tribal territory in Peshawar, capital of North West Frontier Province. " Since only two bodies were recovered, we can assume that the government forces did not manage to retain possession of the battlefield. In that sort of wartime circumstance, it is a universal character of the human species to overestimate enemy casualties. The overestimation ratio is typically about 5x to 10x, and is due to the fact that the kill numbers are obtained by asking the soldiers how many people they hit. It turns out that soldiers always overestimate their accuracy. One shoots, the other guy ducks, one concludes that the other guy was downed by the shot. This overestimation shows up in military history with some regularity. For example, when the very professional air force of Germany in WW2 went after the British during Battle for Britain, they brought back kill totals that far exceeded the total number of aircraft that Britain could possibly have. The British, on the other hand, because they were fighting over their own territory (and therefore retained control over the battlefield), knew almost exactly how many Germans they had shot down. The bad estimates also figured prominently in the Pacific War between the US and Japan, with overestimated numbers of ships sunk by each side. This despite the undeniable fact that a ship is a huge machine that is fairly easy to see, LOL. The overestimation of enemy casualties doesn't figure prominently in land warfare because the land warfare associated with the most casualties tends to avoid the war of maneuver where the estimates are bad. But it does figure prominently in estimates, for example, of how many tanks the Afrika Corps or Montgomery had destroyed during the fight over North Africa. So no, there weren't 24 enemy killed. Probably around 2 to 4. If you think that this is bad, you should see the estimates of US soldiers killed put out by the resistance in Iraq. They're constantly announcing another dozen US soldiers killed, but their figures are always exaggerations by a factor of 5 or 10. While it is possible to chalk some of these errors up to deliberate propaganda, it is also true that humans have a strong desire to tell their bosses what they want to hear. Each individual soldier doesn't think it's such a bad thing when he guesses that maybe he got a couple hits when in actual fact it was probably the same guy ducking back under cover. In actual combat nowadays, you only see the enemy for brief moments, then they're either dead or more likely hiding. So he gives his squad leader a number which is off by one or two. This same applies to everyone in the army, and by the time the totals are added up, the figures are way off. Enemy soldiers are hard to kill. They're prepared, and they're armed. It's a hell of a lot easier to kill enemy civilians, especially when they're unprepared, so armies do better when they estimate how many unarmed civilians they (deliberately) kill. That's cause the soldiers walk up close rather than waste ammunition. -- Carl