To: geode00 who wrote (6650 ) 3/18/2004 8:45:28 PM From: James Calladine Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 173976 "The Hubble disturbs Shrub et al because it says the world is 14 billion years old (give or take)" And that might be a little on the conservative side. If you want to read about the establishment of this world (called "Urantia", in the URANTIA BOOK, it describes the origin of this world as follows: Urantia is of origin in your sun, and your sun is one of the multifarious offspring of the Andronover nebula, which was onetime organized as a component part of the physical power and material matter of the local universe of Nebadon. And this great nebula itself took origin in the universal force-charge of space in the superuniverse of Orvonton, long, long ago. At the time of the beginning of this recital, the Primary Master Force Organizers of Paradise had long been in full control of the space-energies which were later organized as the Andronover nebula. 987,000,000,000 years ago associate force organizer and then acting inspector number 811,307 of the Orvonton series, traveling out from Uversa, reported to the Ancients of Days that space conditions were favorable for the initiation of materialization phenomena in a certain sector of the, then, easterly segment of Orvonton. urantia.org As far as I remember, I was not there at the time, so I cannot vouch for the accuracy of the account. But it is a remarkable account! And the so-called "time" from that beginning is VERY LARGE. And everything we see around us did not just miraculously arrive in the last few thousand years. There is an interesting ESOTERIC story buried in the Bible, but the literal-minded story of the creation of the world as understoond by the Creationists ain't it! Namaste! Jim