As I recall from transcripts released of fire department communications, firemen had climbed to within 2 floors of the point of impact, and reported no fires and no unusual amount of heat. They did however report explosions right before the tower came down on top of them.
I can hardly believe that... why would fire departments request to be involved in the building permit process dictating certain requirements to be mandatory... they have access to plans and a number of other relevant information... why would they rush into a building with zero information about the building itself and the condition that it is in....?
I need no stinking web site to tell me what plain common sense tell me I would do... never mind that fire departments require you to tell them everything about your building before the fire dept. signs off on the permit ?
besides.... the main point of all these posts is whether the collapse of the structure was due to fire or the impact of a plane alone... not conspiracy theories...
your web sites seem to be suggesting aditional spot-bombs on top of the planes....
What rubbish....
There are plenty of clips for you to download in case you want to test your theory against what actually happened.
quote from the site you recommended....
>>> Teresa Veliz, the facilities manager for a software development company, was on the 47th floor of the North Tower when Flight 11 hit. First, like many witnesses, she describes the building shaking twice:
"I got off [the elevator], turned the corner and opened the door to the ladies' room. I said good morning to a lady sitting at a mirror when the whole building shook. I thought it was an earthquake. Then I heard those banging noises on the other side of the wall. It sounded like someone had cut the elevator cables. It just fell and fell and fell.
I began to cry. "Oh, my God, I just got off that elevator!" I said. "That could have been me." I prayed those other people had gotten off on the 48th floor before the elevator dropped. But I didn't have much time to be upset because the building shook again, this time even more violently. The lady at the mirror grabbed onto me and held on for dear life."
Veliz went down a staircase with a coworker to the concourse level. In the mall, they got onto an up-escalator as the South Tower collapsed, causing a rush of wind which knocked them down. In the pitch black, Veliz and her coworker followed someone carrying a flashlight:
"The flashlight led us into Borders bookstore, up an escalator and out to Church Street. There were explosions going off everywhere. I was convinced that there were bombs planted all over the place and someone was sitting at a control panel pushing detonator buttons. I was afraid to go down Church Street toward Broadway, but I had to do it. I ended up on Vesey Street. There was another explosion. And another. I didn't know where to run."
Source: "Teresa Veliz: A Prayer to Die Quickly and Painlessly," in September 11: An Oral History by Dean E. Murphy (Doubleday, 2002), pp 9-15.
ROFLOL !!!
thanks but no thanks...
I would rather go by what the civil engineer I hire and advices me when it comes to steel structures of the warehouses I am involved in... oh yes and the insurance company that tells me how much premium I will have to pay if no sprinkler system is installed.... and the sprinkler system guy that explains to me how it works and the limitations they have.... oh and the Lessee's activities who brings to the building specific fire rated risk, which I have to monitor and request to be "additional insured" in their fire insurance policy...
and guess what...
ALL with no exception... point to the simple fact that fire, if hot enough and uncontrolled for long enough time is a major risk and will DESTROY the very rigid steel structure of the building...
Oh and I forget the fire dept. chief... yeah that pesky guy that if I do not provide (and allow for) fire dept. inspections and plans for the buildigs (not to mention specific requests sometimes... they won't sign off on the building permits... lol ! I wonder why they want to see the damned plans for... and dictate fire exits, location of fire hydrants (assuming the building size is not large enough for them to requests to install additional ones) -gg
Of course, one has to give them the benefit of the doubt... after all... it is not everyday that a building gets slammed on the side by a passenger jet full of kerosene (ROFLOL)... yes, I goofed on the gasoline part... but still, JET A fuel still burns like hell, no it ain't Ethanol (renewable resource) or Methanol (oil derivative) my mistake there...
But I still believe that the collapse of the towers was due to fire that it is perfectly capable of taking away the strength of steel if exposed to high enough temperatures and for a long enough time...
And I do not have to read the stuff in a web site, (to believe it), whose author for all I know is a wacko with a brain filled with conspiracy theories
I would rather trust the civil engineer I deal with, who has built a number of buildings he has been involved in... and how capable he has proven to be.....
I cannot imagine a fire chief sending his men into a fiery building (particularly of this magnitude) without some sort of reading of plans and/or what sort of condition the building was in... I also believe they never imagined the terrorists would have had the success they did...
Once again....
_______________________________
New Evidence Is Reported That Floors Failed on 9/11
By JAMES GLANZ
Published: December 3, 2003
AITHERSBURG, Md., Dec. 2 — Federal investigators said here Tuesday that new evidence supported earlier suggestions that the floor supports in the World Trade Center began failing in the minutes before the towers fell and might have played a major role in their collapse.
The investigators, who are carrying out a two-year, $16 million analysis of the collapses, made it clear that they had not yet settled on a final explanation. They said, though, that their findings gave new weight to a theory that the failure of the floors weakened the towers' internal structure to the point that the entire buildings came down.
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S. Shyam Sunder, who is leading the investigation for the National Institute of Standards and Technology in the Commerce Department, said, "We are seeing evidence of floors appearing to be sagging — or that had been damaged — prior to collapse." Still, Dr. Sunder said, "The relative role of the floors and the columns still remain to be determined in the collapse."
According to an alternative theory of the collapse, the planes that smashed into the towers damaged the towers' vertical structural columns so severely that the buildings were virtually certain to fall. In that view, none of the buildings' many structural novelties — the towers were daring engineering innovations in their day — would have played a significant role in the collapses.
Last spring, the standards institute found the first photographic evidence on the east face of the south tower that a single floor — with its lightweight support system, called a truss — had sagged in the minutes before it started collapsing. Now, detailed analysis of photos and videos has revealed at least three more sagging floors on that face, said William Pitts, a researcher at the institute's Building and Fire Research Laboratory.
In addition, Dr. Pitts said, sudden expansions of the fires across whole floors in each tower shortly before they fell suggested internal collapses — burning floors above suddenly giving way and spreading the blaze below.
Finally, an unexplained cascade of molten metal from the northeast corner of the south tower just before it collapsed might have started when a floor carrying pieces of one of the jetliners began to sag and fail. The metal was probably molten aluminum from the plane and could have come through the top of an 80th floor window as the floor above gave way, Dr. Pitts said.
"That's probably why it poured out — simply because it was dumped there," Dr. Pitts said. "The structural people really need to look at this carefully."
The investigators also said that newly disclosed Port Authority documents suggested that the towers were designed to withstand the kind of airplane strike that they suffered on Sept. 11.
Earlier statements by Port Authority officials and outside engineers involved in designing the buildings suggested that the designers considered an accidental crash only by slower aircraft, moving at less than 200 miles per hour. The newly disclosed documents, from the 1960's, show that the Port Authority considered aircraft moving at 600 m.p.h., slightly faster and therefore more destructive than the ones that did hit the towers, Dr. Sunder said.
The towers did withstand the plane strikes at first, allowing thousands of people to escape, but then the fires, stoked by burning jet fuel, softened the steel of the towers. Potentially challenging other statements by Port Authority engineers, Dr. Sunder said it was now uncertain whether the authority fully considered the fuel and its effects when it studied the towers' safety during the design phase.
"Whether the fuel was taken into account or not is an open question," Dr. Sunder said. It is also unclear, he said, "whether the extent of the loss of human life as a result of that" was taken into account.
The studies of the floor trusses and the design of the towers are just two elements of the investigation, which is carrying out computer calculations of the collapses, rebuilding pieces of the towers in order to test them in real fires, and piecing together a highly detailed chronology of the response to the attack.
In one set of laboratory tests concerning the floor trusses, researchers used earthquake simulators to violently shake assemblages much like the ceilings in the twin towers. The shaking was meant to simulate the impact of the aircraft.
The findings, said Richard Gann, a senior research scientist at the Building and Fire Research Laboratory, showed that many of the fire-protecting ceiling tiles near the impact probably crumbled, exposing the undersides of the trusses directly to the fires.
nytimes.com
uh-oh
a black helicopter just landed in my back yard... I need to go and trigger the bombs to blow up the bridges to my house here in the Yukon Territory before these bunch of unfriendly muggers get to my bunker... my infrared lenses tell me these guys are no bible sales men...
[then again... maybe they are] got to hurry up before they get past the minefield....
Ciao Guido.... |
