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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: NightOwl who wrote (126748)	3/21/2004 7:17:31 AM
From: Elsewhere	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

I simply cannot accept losing this fight. The USA have won the Iraq war as much as a war can be won militarily. Heck, a year ago I was a afraid of a Stalingrad-like scenario #reply-18486907 Winning hearts and minds is a different matter and a pretty PCish target introduced only in the 20th century. The US forces could easily switch to a "5% mode" and finalize an old-fashioned victory. But how do you get rid of the non-terrorists creators? Confront the hate preachers early and don't look the other way. I recently posted that Berlin will probably not allow the construction of a mosque which is related to the European Muslim Brotherhood which in turn has terrorist links. #reply-19721403 The other CB thinks it's a matter of the First Amendment to allow free speech. #reply-19722018 But I believe a lot of the current terror trouble could have been prevented if the Islamicists would have been confronted earlier, in the madrasahs and elsewhere. I read about Qutb nearly two decades ago. #reply-17389667 To be clear: by "confronting" I don't mean nuking or bombing but, for instance, simply telling the western audience publicly in clear terms that there are certain mullahs who would like to kill "infidels" in large numbers. For dichotomies to be effective they have to be highlighted, and if it happens early they don't become deadly. If we back down from any serious attempt to force reform on Iraq... It's impossible to force it. Bremer and the CPA provide nearly the best of what can be done with finite resources. For instance, the infrastructure has approximately been restored to the pre-war level, and there are institutions which might secure some stability after the power transfer: currently there are already 200,000 members of Iraqi security forces. cfr.org How the Iraqis make use of their opportunities should be up to them. I bet that success is more likely than failure if they get a chance to exert their free will.

To: NightOwl who wrote (126748)	3/21/2004 8:30:39 AM
From: FaultLine	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

Hello NO, I simply cannot accept losing this fight. You can win all the peaceful contests you want, but if you can't win a war without (a) picking on a runt, (b) divine/communist intervention, or (c) nuclearizing your enemy, then you are at best a part-time winner. ...But going to war and "losing" simply because you changed your mind about the importance of the effort... well, that is a capital offense as far as I'm concerned. Very well said. Your entire post is a thoughtful exposition. Thanks Night Owl. --fl

To: NightOwl who wrote (126748)	3/21/2004 12:41:17 PM
From: GST	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

<NOTHING is more damaging to it's credibility than going to war and then changing your mind.> There is one thing worse than that -- escalation of commitment to a bad decision. When you cannot disengage from a bad decision, but instead invest more and more and more on a losing cause -- especially one that is actively harming your wider interests and your long-term security -- then you are doing some worse than "changing your mind". This was a bad decision. Escalating commitment to the first bad decision by making more bad decisions to continue to invest in this and similar wars is worse than facing reality and striving to make a good decision now. To draw a comparison -- the tragedy of Vietnam is not that we left -- the tragedy is that it took so long to admit we made a mistake and to leave.