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Politics : Moderate Forum -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: tsigprofit who wrote (8931)	3/30/2004 10:13:18 PM
From: rrufff	Respond to of 20773

I largely agree with much of your post. The only thing I'd suggest is that it's easy to look from safety and make judgements. That's no knock on you as I do the same thing. It's easy to say "I'd prevent 9/11." or "I'd abandon the territories," etc., etc. If the US suffered the equivalent of a 9/11 every few weeks or so as Israel does, I wonder what our reaction would be. I'd guess that some of our more extreme posters would suggest nuking parts of Pakistan, where it is impossible to get heavy equipment into terrorist camps. All in all, Israel has been pretty restrained by both the US and internally by their own debate, something that does not occur in other mideast lands. Yes, they make mistakes and sometimes horrible ones, just as the US does. The difference is it is not intentional as with the terrorists. Anyone who suggests there is some sort of "equivalence" is just deluding him or herself. There is a basic divide in attitudes and degrees and we can probably can agree upon that. Terroristic suicide bombers aiming for civilians, with only minimal chance of getting a military target, is just plain wrong, irrespective of whether Israel could handle the situation better. Further, the Palestinian refugees have been used by their own leaders, both internal and in the larger Arab world, to keep themselves in power and wealth. After all, if they can unite against the common infidel, then they will not challenge their own terrible status or their rulers' world. Israel has assimilated just about as many refugees who were kicked out of Arab lands after 1948. They are not in camps and they are not kept as political pawns. Given that, I do believe that Israel has been mistaken in advancing settlements. I believe they should make one more determined effort for peace, offer a Palestinian state, with a limited military, with international protections, international control of religious sites in Jerusalem, and withdraw to defensible borders, not the 1967 borders, pretty much along the lines of Clinton's plan. Compensation for Jews and Arabs who were dispossessed would also be taken up by the international community. Freedom for all religions with respect to religious sites would be guaranteed by an international force. However, one cannot negotiate with one's self. Arafat has undercut each of his PM's, when each has attempted to address the "road map," the previous PM even had to flee for challenging Arafat. If this continues, Sharon's plan for unilateral withdrawal and isolation behind a fence, is a good temporary step that hopefully will lead to peace after Sharon and Arafat are gone within the next 5 years or less.

To: tsigprofit who wrote (8931)	3/30/2004 10:37:10 PM
From: rrufff	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 20773

Tsig - interesting piece in the Washington Times on the Sheik. The whole piece is very well written. washingtontimes.com The reaction of the European media and political class to the elimination of Sheikh Yassin — the master of hate and terrorism, and one who had called for the murder of Jews — pushed me over the edge. I can no longer tolerate descriptions of the monster responsible for hundreds of deaths and thousands of wounded as a "spiritual leader," a poor "paralytic in a wheelchair." I can no longer tolerate murderous, barbaric Islamist hatred.