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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Bilow who wrote (128359)	4/5/2004 2:23:56 AM
From: Hawkmoon	Respond to of 281500

(a) Not all the bombers believe these stories. So that's supposed to make me feel better? Ohh!! they don't kill themselves for virgins? That a few of them are willing to do it is not due to the religion so much as their hatred for your foreign policy. And what foreign policy might that be? Business interests? What about THEIR foreign policy? What about their desire to restore the Caliphate and to spread Islam throughout the world, using the world's dependence on oil as their economic and political leverage? Again.. self-hating Americanism, as if they don't have their own agenda that seeks to destroy the system which has brought human rights and economic participation, as well as accountable governance, to hundreds of millions of people over the past 200 years. (b) The numbers of suicide bombers is quite small. In fact, even in Palestine, the total numbers are considerably less than the suicide rates in the US. I posted at length on this subject, with the calculations, here: #reply-17310111 It only took 19 and around 500,000 bucks to cause a trillion dollars in economic damage to the American economy (not counting the global economy) and KILL 3,000 innocent people. And yeah... CURRENTLY it's a small percentage, but approx 50% of the muslim world is under 18, so you can effectively double your numbers of potential candidates within a few years. Furthermore, since the region is economically stagnant and utterly lacking the basic legal and political concepts that would create an economy not dependent upon oil, you can expect even more recruits to join the ranks of the suicidal.. Because they blame you.. and you dependence upon business interests more interested in maintaining stability via the current regimes and power structures, than in advancing the ideals that this nation is founded upon. Now maybe it wasn't our place to actively, and even forcefully, advance our values prior to 9/11, but it's a different story now. The fat's in the fire, we're seen as weak and our values worthless in the face of Islamic militancy, and we now have Osama Bin Laden T-shirts proliferating throughout the region. If you think 9/11 didn't make the region FAR more dangerous for US interests (business and political), then you're just plainly delusional. Well, if you can't take the suicide bombers, stay out of the Middle East. Hello... they came here... Came right to NYC and tried to kill 50,000 people (once in 1993 and then again on 9/11). And there was no note, no political statement declaring that 9/11 was in response to the presence in Saudi Arabia (or even support for Israel).. It was a bald-face attack upon our nation in order to coalesce support from the Arab street behind Bin Laden. And furthermore, how can you claim that "business interests" will eventually solve the problem of Islamic militancy, when you claim we should stay out of the middle east? Who's business interests? Bin Ladens? (d) The number of suicide bombers / murderers we collect is going to be proportional to the amount of crap that we give people. Crap? What kind of crap? The only real crap we give them is when we support illegitimate and repressive governments for the purpose of regional stability. And while I might tolerate that for a period of time in order to possibly fight a greater threat (totalitarianism), I fully expect those regimes to implement positive change in order to further justify US friendship and assistance. So just what kind of crap are we giving the world? Was it crap that we forced the European powers to de-colonize after WWII? Was it crap that we put together a coalition of nations to oppose totalitarian communism and the hundreds of millions who suffered and died under it? Is it crap that we're trying to create an accountable and democratically elected government in Iraq that guarantees the freedoms and rights of not just the majority Shiites, but also the minority Sunnis and Kurds? Is that crap? The Black Tigers, the LTTE's suicide squad, have carried out at least five times more suicide bombings than any other group. And they were opposed, fought against, and even bribed. news.bbc.co.uk And the Tamils have given up their goal of independence and opted for regional autonomy. And now they are rushing to vote in the new elections: guardian.co.uk But the jury is still out on the path that Sri Lanka will take. Is this just a "breather" for the Tamils, or part of a irreversible integration into the political system and using legal means, rather than suicide bombings, to accomplish their goals? And their use of suicide bombing is just as disgusting. But to date, they haven't targeted the US, which would require a US response. It's an internal war. However, I fully support any opposition to such suicidal tactics based solely upon the precedent it sets and the undermining of human rights. Hawk