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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: carranza2 who wrote (128627)	4/7/2004 10:38:07 AM
From: redfish	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

"that it is far better to draw out the enemies of such a government now, eliminate them immediately" We started out killing people because they were associates of the terrorists who attacked us on 9/11. Then we went to killing people because they had WMDs and we had to kill them before we saw a mushroom cloud (as Condi said) over Manhatten. Now we are killing people because they are enemies of our handpicked replacement government in Iraq. I imagine the next step will be killing people for no particular reasons. We have become the bad guys.

To: carranza2 who wrote (128627)	4/7/2004 11:22:49 AM
From: Sam	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

If you wonder why Bush is so stubborn in his determination to hand over Iraq to Iraqis by 6/30, consider the fact that it is far better to draw out the enemies of such a government now, eliminate them immediately while they are relatively weak, rather than wait for them to get outside support, gather strength, etc. Kill them off now, while they're young and small. Aha, I see it all now, this is a brilliant move, it wasn't Osama exercising "mind control" over Bush, chanting "Invade Iraq, Invade Iraq," this is Bush exercising mind control over the enemies of democratic governance, saying "Fight now and die, you evil militants." Good idea. Brilliant. I should have seen it earlier. The guy is like a genius. After all, there are only about 5000 or so of "them." So our generals tells us. Should be no problem to get 'em. Must be less that 2000 by now, having captured or killed so many of the bad guys.

To: carranza2 who wrote (128627)	4/7/2004 4:23:33 PM
From: Maurice Winn	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

<They are the last kicks of a drowning crew of Baathists, extremists, and outsiders who have a vested interest in preventing a democratic government from being established by 6/30. > While I expect most people in the region [middle east] aren't interested in being drawn into the conflict over oil, I think we are dealing with more than 'last kicks'. I just watched Rumsfeld and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of staff and I didn't see the confidence I'd expect to see if it was a few last kicks. I think there is major concern that things are not going at all well. I saw lack of confidence, though Rumsfeld was determined to talk confidently and positively. The USA electorate is where there needs to be confidence and will. I'm fairly sure the USA electorate is so clueless that they don't have any will to express, because they don't understand what's going on. So, I wouldn't be surprised if the USA chooses to cut and run, leaving WWI, middle east version, to take place in sandy trenches. That would keep Islamic Jihad busy, not focused on USA citizens, though it would have the unfortunate effect of making oil prices very high as pipelines are blown up. What the other presidential candidates offer is going to be the deciding factor on what happens in Iraq, not what Rumsfeld and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs decide. The electorate now knows that Iraq and Saddam were no threat [in an imminent sense] and that there weren't any WMDs in Iraq that would have any effect on the USA. Lots of them thought Saddam crashed the airliners into the Twin Towers and now they don't think that's the case. The election, as always, will be ignorance grinding against ignorance and self-interest in the local scene of most importance. If you asked each voter what they know about what's going on, the ignorance would be palpable. People say that Saudi Arabia is unstable. Iran is burbling away, Afghanistan's provinces are not exactly as stable as Switzerland's cantons, Pakistan is always ready for conflict, I don't know about Syria, Egypt seems stable but would probably get involved in general insurrection. It would be very good if Iraq could be civilized. But lots of people who don't have their snouts in the oil trough would like to. How else are they supposed to get money and power? Selling dates isn't as easy as filling a supertanker and clicking on the money in cyberspace. Mqurice