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To: TobagoJack who wrote (48339)	4/10/2004 5:23:11 PM
From: Maurice Winn	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 74559

Jay, the people of Hong Kong are glad of having been a British Colony for a century. I know this because I have interviewed my keyboard. If the British hadn't been in charge, Hong Kong would be like the rest of China and you know how ugly that was. Even now, the word on the street in Hong Kong is that they most assuredly do NOT want to be like the rest of China. They don't go as far as demanding Prince Charles and Queen Elizabeth back, but things were definitely going much more swimmingly in the good old days. Similarly, the people of Iraq want to be conquered by the USA and preferably made a colony of the USA and even more preferably, as the British did when they took over countries like New Zealand, make the aboriginal people British Subjects, the same as everyone else. When the British Subjects of India and elsewhere started flooding into Britain, complete with their alien ways, that became a problem, so the British cut and ran and pulled up the drawbridge. So now, I can't export myself to Britain, the Motherland, and neither can Maoris, although we were both British Subjects. Not that I want to, but it was nice to have the choice. I don't think the USA will wish to colonize Iraq and make Iraqis into Americans. Bad luck for the Iraqis. But even so, being conquered by the USA and made into a Mini-Me version would be a lot better than a continuing Arabian Nights version of scimitar and kris. Look how well Japan, South Korea and Germany did after being conquered by the USA. For comparison, look at how well East Germany, Vietnam and North Korea did by NOT being conquered by the USA. People did not try to escape to East Germany over the Berlin Wall. They didn't bust into North Korea, or swim to China's mainland, or take risky boat trips from Hong Kong to Vietnam. I'm a paid up member of the UnAmerican Alien Association, but I think the USA is doing a good thing in Iraq. I see [according to Al Jazeera and CNN] the Japanese hostages are to be freed. It is enough that their captors made hideous threats for me to hold them in total contempt. That's the kind of people who are being suppressed and preferably killed. Good riddance. The USA would have done much better to have called a UN reconstitution conference in Iraq [to be held in Saddam's palaces] and gone international with Iraq, but life isn't perfect and an iterative process to Utopia is about all we can reasonably expect. Unseemly, cowardly? That applies to hostage takers of Japanese innocents and head-hacking viciousness by superstitious Islamic Jihadis. I haven't seen much of unseemly and cowardly by the Cow. Unseemly and cowardly was how Uday, Saddam and gang ran Iraq. Good riddance. Having another set of vicious thugs take over the oil isn't much of an improvement. Dostum in Afghanistan is a Mini-Me Saddam and already is causing a few glitches. More power to the USA and the PNAC if the UN isn't going to do the decent thing. Mqurice

To: TobagoJack who wrote (48339)	4/10/2004 8:26:42 PM
From: Snowshoe	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 74559

Jay, consider this NY Times article... Among Military Families, Questions About Bush Message 20010160

To: TobagoJack who wrote (48339)	4/10/2004 8:34:16 PM
From: tom pope	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 74559

Jay, I can't believe that there aren't a lot of rock ribbed Tories like me who are absolutely appalled at the way Bush has systematically set out to destroy the U.S.' position not only in Iraq, but in the world. The only reason to be a reactionary is a belief that there is something worth preserving. The Bush team - Rummy, Wolfie, Condoleeza, - have left nothing but destruction in their wake. And not the slightest sign of self reflection yet. I thought Colin Powell might have spoken out ere now. If you're lunch friends are betting on a Bush victory in November - well, what do you think?

To: TobagoJack who wrote (48339)	4/10/2004 9:29:03 PM
From: elmatador	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 74559

It's dawned on Americans that the US has to juggle several interests of the factions to whom Iraq will be handed over. Any party, tribe, cleric left out, will 'destabilize' -which is exactly the case of Sadr- and 'destabilize' means producing corpses. The firefights here and there are no less than the political 'campaign' for being 'elected' by the US to govern Iraq.

To: TobagoJack who wrote (48339)	4/10/2004 9:37:33 PM
From: elmatador	Respond to of 74559

I want to establish in this Thread that Iraq is going through a 'campaign' phase to 'elect' a government. 6 months ago: <<The Americans do not know how to handle a rising and rabid Shia cleric>> The guy launched an alternative to the Governing Council the US wants to run the place. Nothing more democratic to have other guy have a say and share the power. <<Could the Americans have done more to accommodate Mr Sadr? Yes, says the man himself. We were ready to talk, when you excluded us from the Governing Council, partly to mollify rival Shias.>> The rise of a radical Oct 16th 2003 \| BAGHDAD From The Economist print edition The Americans do not know how to handle a rising and rabid Shia cleric A WORRISOME young Shia clergyman this week launched an alternative to the Governing Council that was set up and is still controlled by the Americans as Iraq's fledgling ruling body. Because the Americans, under their proconsul, Paul Bremer, have either co-opted the main Shia religious parties or convinced them at least not to oppose American rule for the time being, Muqtada al-Sadr and his cohorts have found a niche as spokesmen for Iraqi Shias' discontent. And it is plainly proving hard for the Americans, and Iraqis co-operating with them, to deal with Mr Sadr and his movement. Too heavy an American hand might increase resentment and restlessness among Iraq's hitherto acquiescent Shias, some 60% of the population. But doing nothing means letting Mr Sadr roam free to spread the word against “the great Satan”.