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Politics : Don't Blame Me, I Voted For Kerry -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: lorne who wrote (13923)	4/11/2004 9:43:34 AM
From: rrufff	Respond to of 81568

Good post - I think we all forget that it is easier to criticize than to propose innovatively. At the beginning of the Afghanistan war, it was quagmire, can't depend on Northern Alliance, same fate as Soviets, big mistake, etc., etc., etc. Yet, the Taliban were conquered with almost no effort, in a brilliant, well-orchestrated military campaign, with almost no loss of life by historical standards. At the beginning of the Iraq war, it was "sandstorm and quagmire." Yet, it was a brilliantly successful campaign, at the smallest cost of human lives, irrespective of any measure, again by historical standards as measured by the size and speed of the endeavor. Before Saddam was caught, it was why can't he catch Saddam? If we catch OBL, it will be "because of the election," etc. Yes, there is much to criticize but my point on this JFK for Prez thread is, "How about reasons to vote FOR JFK III?" Just being a "Bush sucks," patron is not enough IMO to pull off the election.

To: lorne who wrote (13923)	4/11/2004 9:55:49 AM
From: ChinuSFO	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 81568

Bloodshed splits Iraqi council April 11, 2004 Iraq's Governing Council yesterday demanded a halt to "collective punishment" in a sign of a split between US-picked Iraqi leaders and American administrators over US military operations. Abdel Karim Mahud al-Mahamadawi, a secular Shiite member of Iraq's interim Governing Council, met radical Shiite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr, whose militia is battling US-led forces in the south. He said he was suspending his membership in the Iraqi Governing Council until the "bleeding in all Iraq" ended. Another member, Ghazi al-Yawer, threatened to quit the council over the US Marines' bloody siege of the city of Fallujah, aimed at uprooting Sunni insurgents. Friday's halt in the Fallujah assault was requested by the council to allow for talks on reducing the violence, US coalition spokesman Dan Senor said. But a top commander, Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt, insisted the talks "are not negotiations". Al-Yawer, a Sunni council member, and the representative of another Sunni member met city leaders on Friday in talks at a Marine base outside Fallujah, council member Mahmoud Othman said. Al-Yawer said that while he had not taken any formal steps, "I will quit (the council) if the problem is not solved peacefully, because God will not bless a position of power that does not benefit its people". "If negotiations fail because of the stubbornness of the American side or the failure to adhere to a cease-fire, I will quit 100 per cent," he told Al-Jazeera TV. This story was found at: smh.com.au

To: lorne who wrote (13923)	4/11/2004 11:26:55 AM
From: zonkie	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 81568

< Would troops be deployed in all countries in that region.? > No < So how exactly did Bush just about give up in the hunt for bin stupid? > Probably our biggest mistake in Afghanistan was allowing others to do too much of the fighting for us. This was no more evident anywhere than at Tora Bora where we had bin Laden cornered but stood back and let the Northern Alliance handle the up close part of the battle. That is where we should have had him. Didn't we see the Arabs switch sides enough to know not to trust them with important parts of the war? He just about gave up the hunt for bin Laden by pulling out the special forces which spoke the language there. These troops were able to go into villages and speak with the natives to gather intelligence. I have heard it said they felt they were making very good progress in the hunt for bin Laden until they were ordered out and thought they were close on his tail. The troops which were pulled out were the ones which finally captured Saddam. Now they are back in Afghanistan where they should have been all along. He also allowed most of the country to be fall back into unfriendly hands. Parts of it to war lords and parts to the Taliban. After junior's second invasion we hardly ever heard any news of Afghanistan. It was as if our troops had all pulled back to Kabul and weren't even hunting for bin Laden. All of this looks bad on junior in my opinion but I think the thing that makes him look the worst was not placing enough emphasis on terrorism before 9-11 to even order the Predator back into the hunt for bin Laden. When it was pulled out it was said it would go back in as soon as they mounted the Hellfire missile onto it. There were successful tests of the predator in Feb of 2001 but it was never put back into Afghanistan until after 9-11. That right there shows you how badly junior wanted to get bin Laden before 9-11. When he pulled the special forces out of the hunt shows you how bad he wanted him after 9-11. He wanted Saddam more from day one, plain and simple. Do you think junior has done all he could to get bin Laden? If you think he has please give examples of what he did. ______________________ "The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him." - G.W. Bush, 9/13/01 ______________________ "I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority." - G.W. Bush, 3/13/02