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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (129149)	4/13/2004 6:47:31 PM
From: Bilow	Respond to of 281500

Hi Hawkmoon; Re: "While your contention that we should unilaterally withdraw from Iraq immediately isn't nearly treasonous?" If someone had been telling the country that George Custer was going off into Indian territory with a force size too small, you would have called that "nearly" treasonous too. Re: "What about your deliberate ignoring of the evidence that Islamic militancy throughout the region rose, not after US and coalition forces invaded Iraq, but after Bin Laden succeeded in attacking the US homeland?" I haven't ignored this. If you will go purchase a couple more sticks of memory, you'd know that I've already posted agreement with you on this, LOL. Re: "The whole world was wrong about Iraq's WMD stockpiles, not just the US." I wasn't wrong about Iraq's WMDs. And I certainly wasn't alone. Blix is gloating, as are most of the candy making countries, Russia, China, etc. Re: "But I should would like some Egyptian, Jordanian, and Kuwaiti presence. And maybe we'll yet see that." Only in the context of a full US withdrawal with tail between legs. Re: "I recall Shinseki saying this, but not you. Please share with us where and how you independently came up with these numbers." Jesus weeps! I've bragged about it at least a dozen times since then! What is wrong with your memory??? Oh well, here goes again: Bilow, March 5, 2003 We have enough to conquer Baghdad, but as far as keeping Iraq under military control in the face of a hostile civilian population, we are woefully undermanned. Here's proof, from the military itself: ... "In Northern Ireland the British government deployed for more than 25 years a security force of around 32,000 (including both British military forces and the Royal Ulster Constabulary) to secure a total population of just over 1.6 million, giving a force ratio of about 20 per thousand. The British have recently reduced their military forces as part of an ongoing peace process." ... Iraq has a population of 24 million. Using the 20 per 1000 ratio that Britain used in bringing Northern Ireland under control, the US will need an occupation force of 480,000. Oh, and those are Army forces, you don't get to count the Air Force or Navy, and in the event of ongoing terrorism (i.e. the Israeli experience) they could get stuck there for years. And only then, after tens of thousands of body bags, we retreat with our tails between our legs, having relearned the lesson that our fathers learned in Korea and Vietnam -- don't get involved in land wars in Asia unless you can get some other party to supply the cannon fodder. #reply-18657926 Any halfwit general knows that keeping track of the ratio of "us versus them" is the most important thing in warfare. Even a 150% drunk barroom brawler knows this. Re: "And while you're reading, why not check out a few Blogs written by Iraqis living amidst the overthrow of Saddam." Thanks for the links. I will check them out and report on them later. I want as many sources of information as possible. By the way, are you really so naive that you think that the views of three Iraqis who are so well educated and connected that they can blog on the internet is going to match the views of the average Iraqi? *Our problem in Iraq is not with the guys who speak English without an accent and have enough smarts to blog on the internet.* Along that line, you should read Riverbend's blog, she's an Iraqi too: Where are the useless Governing Council? Why isn't anyone condemning the killings in the south and in Falloojeh?! Why aren't they sitting down that fool Bremer and telling him that this is wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong??? If one of them were half a man or even half a human, they would threaten to resign their posts if there isn't an immediate ceasefire… the people are enraged. This latest situation proves that they aren't Iraqi- they aren't here for the welfare of the Iraqi people. The American and European news stations don't show the dying Iraqis… they don't show the women and children bandaged and bleeding- the mother looking for some sign of her son in the middle of a puddle of blood and dismembered arms and legs… they don't show you the hospitals overflowing with the dead and dying because they don't want to hurt American feelings… but people should see it. You should see the price of your war and occupation- it's unfair that the Americans are fighting a war thousands of kilometers from home. They get their dead in neat, tidy caskets draped with a flag and we have to gather and scrape our dead off of the floors and hope the American shrapnel and bullets left enough to make a definite identification. riverbendblog.blogspot.com -- Carl

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (129149)	4/13/2004 6:50:32 PM
From: Bilow	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

Hi all; Iraqi blogger Alaa reports Baghdad no longer under control, fears US isolated: Urgent Appeal Alaa, April 13, 2004 ... I have advocated long ago the importance to control the neighborhoods, side streets and alleyways of the city. This was not achieved and consequently these are more or less under the control of armed bands at the moment. The new police force and ICDC have sadly become totally intimidated and largely ineffective, especially in Baghdad. This is the sad truth. In the last few days, things have become really bad, especially for the middle class inhabitants of Baghdad. In some areas they are knocking on doors to ask for “donations” in support of the “Mujahideen”. Some of my relatives have left their house and came to our house for refuge to escape them. We fear that the U.S. forces may become isolated in an urban sea of hostile gangs and a majority of powerless intimidated people. ... messopotamian.blogspot.com -- Carl P.S. Thanks to Hawkmoon for the link.