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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: NightOwl who wrote (129186)	4/14/2004 6:11:24 PM
From: Bilow	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Hi NightOwl; Re: "But somebody in this government has got to start waging the propaganda battle. Somebody has got to paint a picture of these Islamist terrorists that's so bad, people would be ashamed to say they don't support going after them. If he can't do it verbally, he needs to start using audio-visuals. Somebody has got to show some indignation and anger. War is a nasty business." The government is very capable of running a good propaganda campaign. You saw that before the war, when they convinced the public, and even some foreign countries, that Iraq was awash in WMDs. They continued it when the insurrection started to bite by comparing it to the occupation of WW2. When they got Saddam's children and grandkid they made a big deal out of it. They had a happy time with Saddam's capture. These guys know exactly how to run a propaganda campaign (well at least when the propaganda is directed at the American public). What they don't know how to do is to put a positive gloss on our desperate position in Iraq. Re: "If people don't "feel" good about supporting it they won't. I get the feeling that we're relying on another WTC, a full blown Shiia uprising, or an attack from Iran, to justify continuing." It's not about "justifying" continuing, it's about being able to continue at all. The problem in Iraq is not a propaganda problem, most American support the President on this just like they supported Kennedy, LBJ, and Nixon. Just as with Vietnam, the problem is not a US hearts and minds problem, the problem is that in Iraq, we are militarily, politically and economically getting our asses kicked. -- Carl

To: NightOwl who wrote (129186)	4/14/2004 6:13:20 PM
From: KLP	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

According to everyone who's showed up for the 911 dog and pony show, "the war" started in September 2001. It's now 2004 and we are still debating whether or not we should be fighting it. That may not be psychopathic, but it definitely indicates a loss of cognitive function. As usual, well said, Mr. N. Owl. As for those who are constantly kevetching about why Iraq, and why now?, I just have to conclude they don't read, don't research, and would rather watch Billy Joe Blub on American Idol. The very same folks who wonder why we are in Iraq NOW, are the same folks who bellyache about the US NOT going into Afghanistan before 9-11 to wipe out a few more caves "willynilly." Yep, the very same ones who didn't read, and didn't want to believe there was anything like OBL, A-Q, or even plain ole' terrorists before 9-11, and that we in the US had known about them since at least 1993. And yes, the very same ones that either didn't know, or didn't want to know much of anything about North Korea, and thought this was just a "Republican partician" report... PS...I just see that it may not be possible to get this report online anymore. Not to worry, I have it in my own files if you should want to see it. Message 18066513 Do you think they would/could buy delivery system/s from North Korea? Remember this from this report? Report to The Speaker U.S. House of Representatives November 1999 house.gov >>>>>>>In the last five years, North Korea's missile capabilities have improved dramatically. North Korea has produced, deployed and exported missiles to Iran and Pakistan, launched a three-stage missile (Taepo Dong 1), and continues to develop a larger and more powerful missile (Taepo Dong 2). Unlike five years ago, North Korea can now strike the United States with a missile that could deliver high explosive, chemical, biological, or possibly nuclear weapons. Currently, the United States is unable to defend against this threat. The progress that North Korea has made over the past five years in improving its missile capabilities, its record as a major proliferator of ballistic missiles and missile technology, combined with its development activities on nuclear, biological and chemical weapons, ranks North Korea with Russia and China as one of the greatest missile proliferation threats in the world.<<<<<<<< **************** Even before the North Korean economy began to crumble, missile sales were an important means of earning foreign currency.(79) Past transfers to Iran, Iraq, Syria, Egypt, Pakistan, and perhaps others, including Libya, have historically bolstered the DPRK's economy. Now that North Korea has suffered serious economic decline, however, missiles have come to play an integral part in Pyongyang's trade policy.(80) With a robust customer base in the Middle East and South Asia, missiles are now one of North Korea's few exportable goods with international appeal>>>>>>>>>con't

To: NightOwl who wrote (129186)	4/14/2004 7:26:38 PM
From: carranza2	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

I can't conceive of fighting a war for the next 20 years while you have 24/7 politically oriented "talk" shows debating its merits and every event along the way without the government making every effort to color that debate. Well, welcome to the technology-enhanced chattering of the illuminoignoranti [hey, I like that word; the ignorant learned, mebbe I can copyright it] as they exorcise [yes, exorcise] their First Amendment rights to add to the compost heap. The compost heap is good, however. Things flower, grow. Good stuff happens. The lack of it is the problem with the rest of the world. Heck, even the prez gets to add to the heap. What do you think you're doing when you howl here, you old coot.