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Politics : Should God be replaced? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Greg or e who wrote (17095)	4/15/2004 10:52:40 PM
From: 2MAR$	Respond to of 28931

Do you have any specific evidence that supports your view. I'd be interested to see it. Sounds like tigerpaw, has introduced a very interesting hypothesis...especially the idea of a savior complete with an ancient lineage already clearly incorporating many familiar religious elements and rituals already in place , plus the allure of montheism and a supreme being . These to replace the older Helene and Egyptian diety(s) and much more readily accessable to all and everyone regardless of wealth or status, and a messiah/christ who was for all. The news of the conflict and disturbance of that region was probably on everyones lips throughout the mediterranean & on into Rome , and talks and debates with many stories circulating around from seaport to seaport of the rebellion going on with the Jews . Just as today , more awareness of Allah and Islam has caught the attention of so many in Europe and especially in the United states since Afghanistan's Taliban and the Al-Quaida plots and attacks leading into 9/11 ...and eyballs and heads and ears turn to hear the latest goings on and gossips . The rebellious situation in Judea and its constant religious fervor & rebelliousness was a common topic in all circles and cities . Many were then feeling everywhere the pinch and toll of the Roman rule . It would stand to reason that many tales and stories would be spreading about this trouble region . As for specific evidence of the hypothesis , one can see how rapidly the many of the legions of Rome converted to Mithraism .... it the evangelical preacher Saul would have found a ready and willing audience in the poor , disposessed & fringe elements found cramming the cities of those times . And of a God that dared to challenge not only the Roman rule , but promised eternal life as well. To prove it ? You might just have to have faith Greg ~ but reason also helps ...what a reasonable man might intuit from looking back . You have to have "faith" ! ;-) One can also look to the rapid rise and spread of Islam to take place some centuries later after such fragile beginnings . And yet again , all the same elements are in place and of prophesy & promise of eternal life to the "believer" , and rewards in heaven and belonging to a greater body , adding a greater sense of security. And Islam also linking itself and identifying with some of that older lineage as well... as the older Christian movement had done . Because of the truth of the God of Abraham's wisdom only ? The refinement that comes later with Mohammed , is he doesn't claim to be a "GOD" or "God's Only Son"...but does go so far as to say he is the "Last Prophet". Same effect upon the common man those 700yrs later in terms of Mohammed's legend and status , as would the proclamation of Jesus Godhood 400yrs earlier. But why mince metaphors and titles when dealing with last prophets and only sons of god ? Those who ruled later after Mohammed became just as absolute in power as those who attempted to solidify their own positions in Rome based on the earlier legend and linkage , and so gave themselves titles nearly equal to emperors. ;)

To: Greg or e who wrote (17095)	4/15/2004 11:27:02 PM
From: 2MAR$	Respond to of 28931

Just as Nicaea can be regarded as the birthplace of Christianity, so too it can be regarded as the graveyard of what we imagine Jesus taught. From that time onwards, Christianity was to absorb the superstitions of Mithraism, and many other older religions, and what was believed to have happened to earlier saviour gods, was made to centre around the Nazarene. The coming of Christianity under state control was to preserve it as a religion, and was the death knell of all other sects and cults within the Roman Empire. Had Constantine decided to retain Mithraism as the official state religion, instead of putting Christianity in its place, it would have been the latter that would have been obliterated. To Constantine however, Christianity had one great advantage, it preached that repentant sinners would be forgiven their sins, provided that they were converted Christians at the time of their Passing, and Constantine had much to be forgiven for, He personally did not convert to the new religion until he was on his death bed, the reason being that only sins committed following conversion were accountable, so all sins committed by a convert, prior to conversion, didn’t matter, and he could hardly have sinned too much whilst he was lying on his death bed. Mithraism could not offer the same comfort to a man like Constantine, who was regarded as being one of the worst mass-murderers of his time. The Emperor Julian, who followed Constantine, went back to Mithraism, but his short reign of only two years could not change what Constantine had decreed. His defeat, and death, at the hands of the Persians, was used by the Christians as an argument in favour of the new, against the old, being looked upon as an omen that Christianity had divine approval. If Julian had been spared to reign some years longer, the entire history of international religion would almost certainly have been different. Under Emperor Jovian, who followed Julian, the substitution of Christianity for Mithraism made further progress, and old Pagan beliefs, like the Virgin Birth, Baptism and Holy Trinity, became generally accepted as the basis of the state religion. The early Christian idea of Unitarianism was quickly squashed in favour of Trinitarianism, and those who refused to accept the Holy Trinity were put to the sword, the beginning of mass slaughter in the name of religion, which was to go on for centuries.