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Pastimes : Ask God -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Elmer Flugum who wrote (36701)	4/20/2004 12:00:13 AM
From: Berry Picker	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 39621

Len - actually your slant on the whole experience is dead wrong. Neither Paul nor any other biblical figure ever "appealed" to where men where at to "get converts" In fact both Jesus and Paul taught that it was God the Father alone that saved men and drew them to the truth... There is no appeal to the intellect of the fleshly mind or compromise with man made religion involved. Paul referred to the "Hebrew scriptures" because they are the word of God and God did in fact create the Jewish nation as part of His plan to bring forth the redeemer with infallible proofs. Forgive me - but it is funny to see you reason that Paul was thinking through an approach to entice dissatisfied people of other "faiths" There is but one true "faith" and that faith is a gift of the Holy Spirit not adhering to some man made religion Jesus said this to those who had "decided" to follow Him John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. 66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. Here we see that Jesus is not looking for "converts" - He is not appealing to disgruntled believers of other faiths to get followers - in fact he turned most men away. Only those who are the "called" of God are saved - not man induced converts - churches are full of such converts who "accept Jesus in their hearts" etc... They are not truly saved - only those who are born again because of the call of God and the Holy Spirit are saved. John 6: 36 But I said unto you, that ye have seen me, and yet believe not. 37All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. Unless you are one of God's chosen - you will never be saved no matter what you are "converted" to. Paul said the same thing about his ministry: 1 Corinthians 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man‘s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. and again: 1 Corinthians 2:4 And my speech and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: Those of us who are of the true faith are not looking for converts. Churches every where of every kind of religion are doing that... Jesus said this of the religious rulers of His day: Matthew 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one CONVERT, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. Jesus came for a specific people - a people chosen of the Father before the world began - he was not converting men through clever words and arguments.... Look at what Christ said this fellow: Matthew 8:19 And a certain scribe came, and said unto him, Master, I will follow thee whithersoever thou goest. 20 And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head. 21 And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father. 22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead. Christ was not telling people what they wanted to hear to win them over to "his way of thinking" In fact - true faith - is not gathered by thinking but in spite of it. The carnal mind argues against the truth of God it does not rationally arrive at it. Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. Those who are truly born of the spirit and saved are saved on God's terms and not through the slight of men who build clever arguments - I know that those whom God seeks shall be found those whom He does not seek will never be found and will never find though they look ever so diligently: The disciples wondered why Christ was not trying harder to "get converts" Jesus was confusing the crowds speaking in riddles continuously - Look: Matthew 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? 11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. 12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. 13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. Len you are "reasoning" according to man made religions not according to Faith - true Faith. They need members - we have ours written in heaven. Acts 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common; 47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved. The Lord added..... Do you understand? :-) Brian