To: Sarmad Y. Hermiz who wrote (130031 ) 4/25/2004 11:26:03 AM From: Hawkmoon Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 281500 Le'ts ask the question this way, if the Iraqi army was occupying towns in the US, would it be proper and moral and patriotic for Americans to drive out the occupiers? If my intent was to resist the occupation in order to restore some previous un-democratic and corrupt regime to power, then certainly.. And if I had another agenda, such as installing a totalitarian Christian militant regime into power, certainly. But if I'm someone who never favored the oppression and corruption of the previous regime, and the Iraqi army represented both liberal political and economic values, I would probably welcome and support them. I just get sick of some of the conspiracy theories about "the US just wants our oil".. As if they really believed the oil belonged to them under Saddam Hussein. It certainly didn't belong to them under the oil for food program, as we're finding out from the scandal that is being revealed where upwards of 20% of the proceeds were embezzeled by French, Russian, Indonesian, and other accessories to this economic crime.I think you are forgetting that before anyone in Falluja attacked any occupation soldier, the US was dropping bombs on Falluja in the first days of the US attack on Iraq. And I would remind you that many of the Special Republican Guard forces came from Fallujah and Tikrit. They were hell-bent on organizing an armed resistance, which would facilitated by tribal chiefs and many in the population who sensed their priviledged lifestyle under Saddam was threatened. They WERE one of the hearts of the Baathist regime. So to claim that they were somehow "innocent" is ridiculous. They are a town where smuggling and organized crime were so prolific that even Saddam had difficulty controlling them.I wouldn't know. But from appearances Iraq's people are against the US occupation. And from what I've read in many Iraq related blogs, many Iraqis are definitely FOR maintaining a US presence, or at least averting the return of the thuggery that would deny them any chance of economic hope.messopotamian.blogspot.com healingiraq.blogspot.com iraq-iraqis.blogspot.com deeds.blogspot.com iraqthemodel.blogspot.com A brutal government that would be obsessed with security and retribution. It would keep Iraqis killing each other for a generation. Which I think is the basic motivator of US policy in this invasion of Iraq. That's just BS Sarmad.. We could have done that already, had we wanted to. After all, the UN certainly hasn't played a role in shaping the government there until recent months. The US has spent some $100 Billion in military and humanitarian aid on trying to recarve a democratic future in Iraq. Do you see any other nation willing to spend that much on a people that seemed to perceive them as occupiers? Give me a break.. We're doing it because its important, and because the American people understand that just leaving the Iraqi people to their fates would only lead to a similar situation that occurred in Afghanistan after the Soviets withdrew and no longer cared about them. But now it's different. We need Iraq to modernize, politically and economically, in order to represent itself as an example to the rest of the region that muslims ARE capable of democratic institutions. But if you think the Iraqi people are going to get a "better deal" from any other nation, I think you are simply naive. No one, BUT THE US, has a vested interest in stability in Iraq. Certainly not Iran, Saudi Arabia, or Syria. And they will likely continue to work against US aims until they no longer can resist the trend.There was no poverty in Iraq until the US imposed a siege of Iraq with daily bombing raids from 1991 to 2003, and when that was not deemed sufficiently Please quote sources.. The Iran-Iraq war was BLEEDING Iraq dry.. Iraqi GDP per capita continued to decline all through that period. And then Saddam invaded Kuwait (with the popular approval of the Iraqi people).. So who are they to blame for their condition? They should be blaming themselves, because they facilitated Saddam's aspirations. Iraqi governments had kept out foreign agents for the past 80 years. At what cost? Brutal repression.. hundreds of thousands executed... extensive poverty and corruption... economic stagnation, foreign aggression.. Is this what you're advocating occur again? So how with they do it now? Where's their army? Who will pay for it? Iraq is economically crippled and now vulnerable to being torn to pieces. Again, Sarmad... What about the foreign agents from Iraq's neighbors ALL hoping to meddle and dictate the future of Iraq? Where's the blame they should be receiving for the recent events in Iraq?But it doesn't make sense. he other thing that doesn't make sense, is why did Sadr seek refuge in the areas where Sistani has influnce (Najef and Karbala)? Because Sistani doesn't want to evoke a civil war within the shiite community that could be taken advantage of by the Sunnis, that's why... Sadr wanted Al-Hakim's position, and he resented his reconciliation with Al-Khoei.. It threatened his power base and that threat had to be removed and his rivals left leaderless. Both Al-Khoei and Al-Sadr come from powerful Shiite families, and both were rivals to the succession of Al-Sistani's position when he eventually dies. What's so difficult to understand about that? You need to stop thinking about all of these conspiracy theories. The US doesn't want to remain in Iraq. All we want is for their to be economic and political progress so that we're not threatened by Islamic militancy in the future. We need to eradicate the poverty and religious intolerance that facilitates this militancy. That's our agenda.. And it should be the same agenda that the majority of Iraqis should desire. Hawk