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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Lou Weed who wrote (130077)	4/25/2004 9:01:54 PM
From: Nadine Carroll	Respond to of 281500

Stealing land from another state (Jordan and Egypt in 1967) Hello, whose started the damn war? You think if Jordan and Egypt had won, as they confidently expected to, they would have given anything back, ever? Taking territory in the course of repelling an invasion is not "stealing". In case you've forgotten, the Israelis offered it back for a peace treaty, and got the 3 no's of the Khartoum conference: No negotiation. No recognition. No peace. Everytime you start to sound reasonable, you go back to this cloud-cuckoo land, judging Israel by the standards of Canada, without even noticing the actions of their enemies, to which they must respond. The Arabs wanted the Six Day War. You can argue that the Soviets egged them on, and spare the lecture about how Israel struck first, I think I know more about the war than you do. The double standard is what drives me crazy. Sure, the Israelis do wrong stuff, and they themselves agonize quite a bit over the suffering that they are causing the Palestinian people. But the minute they try to ease up, negotiate, reach a deal, they are immediately "rewarded" by being blown up in greater numbers. They are not sympathetic enough for Palestinian children to watch their own being murdered with equanimity. For this they are universally condemned. The world demands that Israel be the only Christian among nations. Do you know how Israeli casualties compare for the periods 83 - 93 vs. 94 to 2004? Do you have any inkling of the answer to this? Do you know what the casualties were during the supposedly peaceful Oslo years of 94 - 2000? When the rest of the civilized world and every international organization that deals with human rights condemn your actions, guess what??? maybe you're doing something wrong!!! Or maybe the world has found a scapegoat for its sins. How many have died in the entire Israeli/Pal conflict? How many died in Hama in 1982? In Jordan in 1970? In Saddam's mass graves? In the Sudan right now? How is it that the world's outrage has no correlation with the atrocities commited or the number of dead?

To: Lou Weed who wrote (130077)	4/25/2004 11:17:30 PM
From: Hawkmoon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Stealing land from another state (Jordan and Egypt in 1967), oppressing the indigenous population (Palestinians), displacing them from their homes and refusing their right of return is WRONG even when the Jews are guilty of it Stealing land from Egypt? Who'd they steal it from? The Ottomans? Egypt didn't even exist as a country until AFTER the Ottoman empire was defeated by the Western states. And who did the Jordanians steal the West Bank from in 1948? They annexed it and held it for 20 years as part of their kingdom.. Then they stupidly attacked Israel and lost it as a result of their aggression.. Then, after Arafat launched his intifada against the Israelis, suddenly King Hussein realized that he didn't want the West Bank back, so he gave up claim to it and made peace with Israel.. leaving them to have to deal with the final status of the territory.. That's what I call abdicating his responsibility.. So now we're in a situation where a Palestinian state is inevitable, but neither side is willing to do what's required to end the seemingly ceaseless conflict.. And lots of regional leaders are pretty happy about that because it's helping to distract their populations from their own corruption and ineptitude. Hawk