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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Bilow who wrote (130242)4/28/2004 9:45:07 AM
From: Neocon  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 281500
 
The North Vietnamese waged a war of attrition that broke our will to fight and led us to find a way to terminate our intervention, even though it left the South in an untenable position. It succeeded in its war aims, we did not. Thus, it prevailed.

My point is that the Japanese had no reason to think that it was hopeless to take on the United States based on pig iron production.

The cabinet and general staff were perfectly aware that the Emperor was a figurehead, and were capable of continuing to fight unless they had been brought to consider, along with him, that the situation was hopeless and dire.

People will not always admit that that a situation is hopeless. That is why the message must sometimes be driven home, as with the dropping of the bomb on Nagasaki.

There does not need to be a Hirohito to turn the tide of Palestinian sentiment about tactics like suicide bombings, anymore than there had to be a Hirohito to disillusion the American people with Vietnam.

I worked on the McGovern campaign in 1972, in a local campaign office. I was a registered Democrat until 1988, although I voted for Reagan earlier.

Now, having had enough of your garbage for the week, I hope you will understand if I take a "Bilow break" for awhile.........



To: Bilow who wrote (130242)5/1/2004 6:34:05 AM
From: Elsewhere  Respond to of 281500
 
Man is a territorial animal, and he fights hardest over his own territory

Vietnam's Giap Gives Warning on Iraq
By Tini Tran
The Associated Press
Friday, April 30, 2004; 2:33 PM
washingtonpost.com

HANOI, Vietnam - The frail and tiny man who defeated two superpowers returned to the spotlight Friday to talk of triumphs past and deliver words of warning to the Americans at war in Iraq.

"Any forces that would impose their will on other nations will certainly face defeat," said Vo Nguyen Giap, the legendary general whose strategies wore out the French colonial regime and then the U.S. Army.

Giap is 92 now, the last of Vietnam's giants in a 30-year war to shake off colonial rule and unite the country under communism. What brought him to a rare meeting with journalists was two landmark anniversaries: The fall of Saigon on April 30, 1975, and the defeat of French colonial forces at the epic siege of Dien Bien Phu, 50 years ago next Friday.

With critics of the Iraq war likening it to America's Vietnam experience, Giap's opinion was eagerly sought, but the man considered one of history's foremost military strategists prefaced his reply with caution, saying he didn't know the specifics of the Iraqi situation.

He offered this: "All nations fighting for their legitimate interests and sovereignty will surely win."

Giap emphasized the powers of today shouldn't underestimate weaker countries' desire for independence.

Vietnam "proves that if a nation is determined to stand up, it is very strong," he said. "We are very proud that Vietnam was the first colony that could stand up and gain independence on its own with the victory of Dien Bien Phu."

Giap lives a reclusive life in a gardened French colonial villa near the mausoleum of Ho Chi Minh, his schoolmate and later president. The white-haired soldier came to the news conference at the government guesthouse in central Hanoi wearing an eggshell-white uniform with no medals attached.

Speaking Vietnamese and French, he was relaxed and animated during a two-hour session, pumping his fist, wagging his finger, cracking jokes, thanking Americans who opposed the Vietnam War, and reminiscing about his days as a fighting revolutionary.

Giap had no military background or training when Ho Chi Minh chose him to command the Viet Minh army. A history professor and one-time journalist, he had joined the struggle against French colonial rule at age 14. His wife had died in a French prison.

But his gut instincts and natural talent were proven during the pivotal battle at the border outpost of Dien Bien Phu.

Giap's Chinese advisers told him to strike hard and fast, but he opted for slow, steady ambushes and the unexpected - like having his troops drag heavy artillery, piece by piece, over steep mountain passes to surround the French.

The 56-day siege ended with the French surrender on May 7, 1954, ultimately ending France's rule in Indochina and inspiring anti-colonial fighters around the world. But peace would remain elusive.

The day after Giap's victory at Dien Bien Phu, a telegram arrived from Ho Chi Minh that said: "The victory is really great, but it's just the beginning."

The country had been partitioned, and American troops began arriving to defend Washington's South Vietnamese ally against communist-ruled North Vietnam. That war lasted until April 30, 1975, when Saigon, capital of South Vietnam, fell to communist forces.

As revolutionaries fighting in the jungle, Giap said he and Ho Chi Minh simply dreamed of a country free of foreign domination.

Back then, "Vietnam was an enslaved country. The only free place was in the jungles and behind our enemy's back. Modern Vietnam is much different. Vietnam today is a country of freedom, unity, independence, democracy and peace," he said.

The country is still under the one-party communist system inherited from Ho, who died in 1969, but the trappings of capitalism are everywhere as the nation of 80 million strives to mesh into the global economy.

The changes were evident from the ornate French colonial guesthouse where Giap used to meet Ho Chi Minh, and to which he returned to bask briefly in his former glory.

Across Ngo Quyen Street stands the elegant, restored Metropole Hotel, now filled with American and other foreign tourists. Nearby, a store sells French wines.

Roads once filled with bicycles are now clogged with cellphone-wielding youths on motorbikes. Neon signs and flashy billboards, Internet cafes and trendy restaurants dot the capital.

Dien Bien Phu has also grown and modernized, as Giap saw when he recently visited there and met a few surviving veterans of the battle.

"I am more than 90 years old. I never thought I'd have another opportunity to visit Dien Bien Phu," he said. "I had very strong emotions - memories of those who had fallen."