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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (130431)	4/29/2004 1:50:01 PM
From: cnyndwllr	Read Replies (6) \| Respond to of 281500

Hawkmoon, the world's a dangerous place and it's going to stay that way for a long time. No matter what we do we cannot prevent more terrorist attacks in our homeland. That's just the way it is and we're going to have to accept it and get over attempting panicky, punitive actions that amplify the problems. The Bush course of using and threatening massive military force against nations is counterproductive. Ask yourself this question; if we controlled the governments of every Muslim/Arab nation in the world would we still have an Islamic terrorist problem? Of course we would, and it would be fueled by tremendous outrage. This isn't the good old days of imperialism when a country could force it's will on another country and the only weapons available to those in the occupied country were swords and clubs. Today there is travel, technology and weaponry that allow those who have the will to strike anywhere and to strike deeply. The rules have, therefor, changed and the powerless are no longer impotent. If we could build democracy in the countries of the Middle East we would go a long way toward alleviating some of the circumstances that create the breeding ground for terrorism. Similarly, if we could build a consensus in the Middle East that we were not pro-Israeli and anti-Arab and, additionally that we're not crusaders or imperialists who supported every despot who gave us cheap oil, we might see less terrorism from those peoples. These are fine goals but they take a deft hand and a clear understanding of and respect for other cultures. Unfortunately, the Bush government seems intent on oppressive actions, lack of diplomacy and the use of massive military force in a way that assures that these goals are unlikely to be achieved. When we have people in power who are willing to be diplomats, who will lead by example in terms of human rights and the rule of law and who will be seen as non-secular in their actions, then we may finally be able to move forward. In the meantime we'll just have to settle for hunting down, killing and foiling the plots of terrorists the best we can.

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (130431)	4/30/2004 12:37:39 AM
From: Bilow	Respond to of 281500

Hi Hawkmoon; Re: "How about what that guy tried to do in Amman, Jordan though?? He didn't try to take down ANY buildings.. Just spread enough chemicals across the city to potentially kill 20,000 people. Is that something I should worry about?" The 20,000 figure was highly exaggerated. If you're a Jordanian, yes, maybe you should cower like a b:7th dog. The problem was taken care of not by military force, but, as usual, by police work. That's the only tool that stops that sort of thing. Hey, I know! Why don't you go pick a fight with someone who is so fanatical that they'll tie explosives to their kids! And then, when you get your butt whipped, come whining back to me for an exit strategy. Re: "Kind of like 9/11 didn't have an impact on how we conducted business, legally, economically, and politically?" I never said that 9/11 had no impact on this country. It's obvious that it did. But on the scale of the disasters of the past 100 years, this is nothing. The depression saw 25% of the population out of work with no unemployment benefits. We haven't stuck Japanese Americans into internment camps. Our industry hasn't been converted to a war footing. We've had no runs on our banks, and we don't contemplate serious changes to the banking rules. Our political system grinds with the split between Democrats and Republicans almost identical to pre 9/11. In short, you're making a mountain out of a, well not a mole hill, but something that is far short of a mountain. Re: "Is the physical defeat of the US, the only one we should fear Bilow??. Or should we be worried about our spiritual defeat??" I'm not sure what you mean by "spiritual defeat". By this do you mean the transformation of those who should be brave men into sissies who cower at the thought of 20 tons of explosives 10,000 miles from this country's borders? -- Carl