>>>Is that the "grateful Iraqis will welcome us with songs and flowers and love us forever" story again? <<<
The Left's need for instant gratification on this is telling--childlike behavior.
Excuse me, but who is this "the Left" that you are confusing with yours truly?
I am only pointing out that the story Bush administration told the world (and apparently believed at the time) about how Iraqis would be so happy with the US invasion that they would welcome US troops with flowers and love them forever turned out to be very false.
This has nothing to do with "instant gratification". It has a lot to do with telling dreams from reality.
That doesn't seem complicated to me
Everything about invading a sovereign country who was not an immediate threat to anyone is complicated. Don't forget that you don't know anything about these people, and that their values are extremely different from yours. US just beheaded a country with huge ethnic tensions, and zero tradition of a secular democratic rule. It doesn't get any more complicated and delicate than that. Assuming it is a simple thing is not going to help much.
>>>Then why, in your opinion, is the US not invading China to liberate Tibet? <<<
This is another childlike question. These are complex matters without a single, one-size fits all solution.
Ah, so you agree it is a complex matter :-)
Myself, I know the answer. I was asking for YOUR opinion, since you seem to think US invaded Iraq to liberate poor little Iraqis from a brutal rule.
>>>(1) US unconditionally supports Israel in its brutal occupation of Palestinians, their Muslim "brothers". Without US's support, Israel would not be able to make their brothers suffer. Thus, in their eyes, it is the fault of the US.<<<
As Tom Friedman has pointed out, this is nonsense
I couldn't care less what Mr Friedman has pointed out. This is what I have come to realize through the years as one of the root causes of anti-American feeling through the Middle East.
The people of Iraq are one hell of a lot more concerned about themselves than they are the Palestinians.</I.
I thought your question "Why do THEY hate us?" was directed at the Arab and Muslim world in general, and not just about the Iraqis. Weren't the Iraqis supposed to love Americans anyway, since they are the liberators?
Besides, even if we are looking at just the Iraqis, you must be extremely naive or completely in the dark about how an ME person's mind works to think they would not relate to Palestinians, that THAT would be "against human nature". Don't make the mistake of thinking everyone on this world, all humans, are Americans at heart, motivated by the same fears and desires, and all waiting for the opportunity to get a six-pack and a TV to watch baseball on. Consider the possibility that you don't really know their "nature", which may be VERY different than yours, especially given their lives revolving around tribal affinities.
They hate if we free them, they hate us if we don't.
This is a better way to look at it - They hate the US both as it supports the oppressive regimes over them (ex: Saudi) AND when it invades their country and kills their people by the thousands, based on lies.
It's not really too difficult to understand.
By placing a democracy in the center of the Middle East we will, over the coming 30 years or so see democracy spread
Do I need to write this again? Turkey has been a democracy right next to Iraq over the last EIGHTY years in the Middle East. And we didn't see "democracy spread". How on earth a US-forced "democracy" going to spread anything???
The US is defending itself against terrorists. We tolerated it for a long time, now we're doing something about it. It happens that removing Saddam is the best way to do it.
Can you really justify the above statement, or is it just based on faith? Because, you see, AlQaeda and Saddam didn't really get along (one wanting religious rule and the other being a secular dictator) and Iraq had far less to do with terrorism than Saudi Arabia, Syria, Iran, and Pakistan.
By removing Saddam, US put stuck a stick into a bee's nest. At the worst possible moment, while it should have concentrated on fighting and destroying Al Qaeda.
Several generations of Americans will probably regret that mistake...
Well, we know there were training camps in Iraq
In the Northern part, where Saddam had no authority. Yeah, right, great reason to invade Iraq.
as well as some Al Qaeda seeking refuge there
Even if true, it is not a cassus belli. If an Al Qaeda member is being sheltered in England right now, will the US invade the UK?
It is immaterial, however. That isn't the reason Saddam needed to go.
Really? I never could keep up with that ever-changing "reason" to go to war - "There are WMDs", "no there are perhaps no WMDs but it doesn't matter because he was in bed with Al Qaeda", "no he didn't have anything to do with Al Qaeda and it doesn't matter because we saved the poor little Iraqis", "no that doesn't matter because we are in fact installing democracy in the ME" yada yada yada.
even the Saudis are beginning to understand they have to change
And you know that... how? How many Saudis have you talked to recently on this subject?
The people of Iraq, given a chance, will choose democracy I believe.
Sure. And in the first elections, they will choose a religious leader who will make the country an Islamist Republic. What are you going to do then, when they ACCEPT democracy, and ELECT an Al-Qaeda supporter, for example?
I wonder if you'll be around to say, "I was wrong".
I probably have a good sixty years in front of me, so no worries, I will be around. I hope to see you around as well.
I think you know so much about it that you're just like the Arabs are -- so brainwashed with Al Jazeera propaganda that you can't see the forest for the trees.
Let me give you a bit of background so you know a little what you are talking about - I am not Arab, I am not Muslim, I am not religious, and I have not been brainwashed in any way. I have been educated in American schools from elementary school onwards, reading Shakespeare and T. S. Elliot, and watching US and European channels.
You should be trying to LEARN from the experiences of someone who has actually been there, speaks the languages, and KNOWS what makes those people tick. Instead, you call me "brainwashed". For crying out loud.
And Al-Jazeera did not exist while I was living around the ME. It is a fairly new TV channel, perhaps you did not realize.
If one stands back at looks at the problem dispassionately, we certainly seem to be on a reasonable course to bring about positive change.
Personally, I have no passions on the subject whatsoever. I am not there anymore, and I am not the one holding a passport that is likely to get me killed or kidnapped over the course of the coming decade or so, because the US has invaded Iraq and played into Bin Ladin's hand.
"Positive change", LOL. Who says they want to change and who says they will change just because W. Bush tells them to?
Sometimes the path there can get pretty ugly
I know that "path" and the places it leads to, because I have actually lived in the region. You are basically repeating stuff you heard on Fox TV, not much different from an Arab talking about the US based on what he saw on Al-Jazeera.
Don't make the mistake of thinking you know what you are talking about, just because you saw a two-hour news shows on the Middle East. |
