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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: cnyndwllr who wrote (130497)	4/29/2004 4:52:14 PM
From: Nadine Carroll	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

What I said is true. The fact is that we're fighting perceptions and, in some cases the reality, that we're negatively impacting the everyday lives of Muslim/Arabs in the Middle East. Chicken and egg problem: which came first, the ideology or the perception? The problem is that a significant minority of the Islamic world follows an ideology that says: 1.Islam should rule the world 2. It's totally the fault of the infidels (read: the Crusaders and the Jews) that Islam does not rule the world 3. Muslims therefore have both the right and the duty to kill large numbers of infidels to correct this situation. An ideology like that can color your perceptions, know what I mean?

To: cnyndwllr who wrote (130497)	4/29/2004 11:25:09 PM
From: Hawkmoon	Respond to of 281500

That's just the way it is and we're going to have to accept it and get over attempting panicky, punitive actions that amplify the problems." If you think we're going to be attacked again.. you're probably right.. We're too vulnerable. But one strategy that has been consistent in the history of the United States is that we don't permit the enemy to choose the time and place of the battle.. Which is why we're in THEIR back yard and forcing THEM to defend their own territory. And we need to continue to pressure them on their own turf so they have to dedicate their resources to confronting the US there.. In addition, the presence of over 140,000 US troops in the area greatly heartens those moderates who finally see the US taking active steps to promote our ideals within their region.. Not all Arabs hate the US cnyndwllr.. Just the ones who have their own totalitarian agenda and who seek to dominate the weak and helpless people in their part of the world. Can you even contemplate what role demographics play in this struggle? There are 400 million muslims under the age of 18 right now. Within 10 years most of them will begin entering adulthood in societies that are economically stagnant. If you permit just 1% of them to fall under the influence of Islamo-Fascism unopposed, that will result in 4 million potential militants who hate the US. If just one percent of them actualize their feelings, that will be 400,000 of them trying to wage Jihad against the US and other nations in the region.. Now that's the MINIMUM.. The reality is that probably 10-30% of them will fall under the influence of the militants. That means will be facing 10s of millions of potential martyrs looking to seek vengeance for the "repression" they've suffered from the west.. Those are the hard realities you need to be thinking about right now.. You think it's bad now.. Just wait.. Do nothing to confront and humiliate the militants and they will grow stronger in the face of our weakness and hesitancy. And you will condemn millions of young muslims, and possibly the same number of Americans to a brutal and violent death. that we're negatively impacting the everyday lives of Muslim/Arabs in the Middle East. We're also POSITIVELY impacting the lives of these people who have been brutalized for decades. Look at Afghanistan, where 30 years of civil war has utterly devastasted the country.. A civil war that was fed by many different foreign governments (The US presence was mainly to overthrow the communists, but I guess that could be considered civil war as well).. What's your solution; hit someone and show them that "they are defeatable and that Allah is not with them?" You only look like a demagogue when you use that kind of rabid rhetoric. You have to understand a major mindset of muslims. The most religious of them believe that everything in their lives, from properity to poverty, is the "will of Allah. They believe that they can do nothing to change their lives so they must accept whatever reality they find themselves in. Now for the actualized militants who conduct the terrorist attacks, they believe they are the tools of Allah. They believe that they cannot fail because Allah is with them. Many of them will be martyred in the process, but in the end, Allah will grant them victory and their enemies will be defeated or they will retreat. If we retreat, we will feed that belief and the militants will be able to tell their potential recruits "see.. our sacrifices have forced the infidels to retreat.. Our faith is stronger than theirs and eventually we will defeat them on their own soil".. They will not quit until they are either killed, or they are convinced (hopefully by moderate muslims) that their actions violate the tenets of Islam. Hawk