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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (130501)	4/29/2004 5:28:15 PM
From: carranza2	Respond to of 281500

We better find some way to change the Islamist ideology, or we are in for a long war and the Arabs are in for utter disaster. Agreed. The problem is that changing Islamist ideology will be impossible in the near term. A few bombings here and there, as ineffective as they are in the larger scheme of things, will be perceived erroneously as huge victories, emboldening the I-fascists to try to do more. And the more they do, ineffective as it might truly be, the more they'll do, until, out of exasperation, our response will be serious, focused, and brutal. What has taken place in Israel in the last 15-20 years is the template for what will happen globally and to the West, in my view. All the negotiations and concessions that were made by Israel amounted to zip, nada. All it got for its concessions was the erroneous perception that Israel was weak and needed to be attacked even more. The results are on the table for all to see. The Palestinian misperception of Israel will be followed, like clockwork, by a similar Islamist misperception of the West and of the US. It will result in the same ending, a world full of pain for all involved, especially the innocents who want nothing to do with whatever insane grievances motivate the I-fascists' rage. The tornado of increasingly violent strike/response we've seen in Israel has begun on a global scale. We'll see where it takes us. I'm not optimistic that it can be contained. The process, I fear, has to exhaust itself.

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (130501)	4/29/2004 5:33:52 PM
From: cnyndwllr	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

I think I understand you better: "A few more 9/11's, which are the direct and natural result of the Islamist ideology, and the Arabs will find out how the West behaves when it's really mad." So we will, as a "direct and natural result" have to do something really impressive? Your "out" is is your statement that "[w]e better find some way to change the Islamist ideology, or we are in for a long war and the Arabs are in for utter disaster." Of course how do you change an ideology? Wouldn't it be easier to do something more within our control; say change our own ideology to an Islamic one? Now that sounds kind of silly to me, just as silly as the concept of changing theirs sounds. In the interim you seem quite willing to approve of the Israeli "approach." As I see it that approach is to "teach them a lesson." The unfortunate fact, however, is that the more we teach them lessons, the more support the ideologically radical Islamics seem to receive. Maybe we should stop digging that hole? Maybe we should try to find commonalities with the large majority of Muslims and act in ways that belie the extremist's characterizations of our nation and our people as anti-Islam? Maybe we should use the carrot and the stick approach and, in the process, butt out of their affairs? Or maybe you believe that your way has worked so well in solving the Iraelie/Palestinian conflict that you want to expand it to the handling of all Middle Eastern vs. Western culture conflicts? I suppose there are those that would prefer that the "Arabs .. find out how the West behaves when it's really mad." I'm not, however, one of them.