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Politics : Moderate Forum -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: epicure who wrote (9838)	4/30/2004 9:14:18 AM
From: rrufff	Respond to of 20773

Israel is only an incidental beneficiary of getting rid of Saddam, and, quite frankly, they were stopped by the US from doing it themselves over the years. The real beneficiaries are Jordan, the OILgoarch states, particularly Saudi Arabia, and Iran. Of course, the world is a better place but admittedly that was not the PR put forth by the administration.

To: epicure who wrote (9838)	4/30/2004 10:09:09 AM
From: tsigprofit	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 20773

Iraqi abuse photos spark shock The photos of what some of our US soldiers have done in Iraq have brought disgust around the world. I find it repulsive, totally immoral, and something everyone should speak out against. matt news.bbc.co.uk Iraqi abuse photos spark shock Images of US soldiers allegedly abusing Iraqi prisoners at a notorious jail near Baghdad have sparked shock and anger. Politicians in the US, Britain and the Middle East expressed disgust at the images, broadcast on US television, and called for those responsible to face justice. CBS News said it delayed the broadcast for two weeks after a request from the Pentagon due to the tensions in Iraq. Last month, the US army suspended 17 soldiers over alleged prisoner abuses. 'Appalled' Six soldiers - including a brigadier general - are facing court martial in Iraq, and a possible prison term over the PoW pictures. A spokesman for British Prime Minister Tony Blair said he was "appalled" and described the incident as regrettable. US Republican congressman, Jim Leach - who had opposed the war - said: "The US has historically prided itself on treating prisoners of war with decency and respect. "This has to be investigated and accountability obtained within the American military justice system." Adnan Al-Pachachi, a member of the Iraqi Governing Council, said it would create a great deal of anger and discontent among Iraqis already concerned about security in the country. Graphic The graphic images include one of a hooded and naked prisoner standing on a box with wires attached to his genitals. CBS said the prisoner was told that if he fell off the box, he would be electrocuted. Another shows naked prisoners being forced to simulate sex acts. In another, a female soldier, with a cigarette in her mouth, simulates holding a gun and pointing at a naked Iraqi's genitals. News Release Issued by the International Secretariat of Amnesty International "Our extensive research in Iraq suggests that this is not an isolated incident. It is not enough for the USA to react only once images have hit the television screens". Amnesty International has received frequent reports of torture or other ill-treatment by Coalition Forces during the past year. Detainees have reported being routinely subjected to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment during arrest and detention. Many have told Amnesty International that they were tortured and ill-treated by US and UK troops during interrogation. Methods often reported include prolonged sleep deprivation; beatings; prolonged restraint in painful positions, sometimes combined with exposure to loud music; prolonged hooding; and exposure to bright lights. Virtually none of the allegations of torture or ill-treatment has been adequately investigated by the authorities. News Release Issued by the International Secretariat of Amnesty International AI INDEX: MDE 14/017/2004 30 April 2004 Iraq: Torture not isolated -- independent investigations vital There is a real crisis of leadership in Iraq -- with double standards and double speak on human rights, Amnesty International said today. "The latest evidence of torture and ill-treatment emerging from Abu Ghraib prison will exacerbate an already fragile situation. The prison was notorious under Saddam Hussein -- it should not be allowed to become so again. Iraq has lived under the shadow of torture for far too long. The Coalition leadership must send a clear signal that torture will not be tolerated under any circumstances and that the Iraqi people can now live free of such brutal and degrading practices," Amnesty International said. "There must be a fully independent, impartial and public investigation into all allegations of torture. Nothing less will suffice. If Iraq is to have a sustainable and peaceful future, human rights must be a central component of the way forward. The message must be sent loud and clear that those who abuse human rights will be held accountable. "Our extensive research in Iraq suggests that this is not an isolated incident. It is not enough for the USA to react only once images have hit the television screens". Amnesty International has received frequent reports of torture or other ill-treatment by Coalition Forces during the past year. Detainees have reported being routinely subjected to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment during arrest and detention. Many have told Amnesty International that they were tortured and ill-treated by US and UK troops during interrogation. Methods often reported include prolonged sleep deprivation; beatings; prolonged restraint in painful positions, sometimes combined with exposure to loud music; prolonged hooding; and exposure to bright lights. Virtually none of the allegations of torture or ill-treatment has been adequately investigated by the authorities. Amnesty International is calling for investigations into alleged abuses by Coalition Forces to be conducted by a body that is competent, impartial and independent, and seen to be so, and that any findings of such investigations be made public. In addition reparation, including compensation, must be paid to the victims or to their families.

To: epicure who wrote (9838)	5/3/2004 4:14:47 AM
From: GUSTAVE JAEGER	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 20773

Re: We weren't, imo, blackmailed by Israel (we think too much about Israel, and our president, with his fundamentalist thinking tends to think in terms of Revelations, which involves Israel and the ME... And I maintain that the US was --and still is-- blackmailed by Israel... the same way fanatical Pieds-Noirs blackmailed and terrorized France from 1958 to 1962. The advantage for France and then President Charles de Gaulle was that General Raoul Salan (the Pied-Noir prequel of Ariel Sharon) didn't have nukes. Also, there was no French "Bible Belt", no religious fanaticism among French opinion, and no French televangelists to whip up French hatred against Muslim Algerians... Hence the Pied-Noir diehards and their terrorist outfit OAS lacked the powerful lever of public opinion. Renegades generals Salan, Zeller, Jouhaud and Challe did contemplate a coup d'etat but they understood that the French people would never follow them --not to mention that key military divisions might stick by De Gaulle and oppose them (General Massu, e.g.).