Silicon Investor (SI) -- The First Internet Community

STOCKTALK

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor. We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community. If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.

Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Maurice Winn who wrote (131191)	5/3/2004 5:18:21 PM
From: Ilaine	Respond to of 281500

What started the argument was Pearly passing on the moronic assertion that Hitler really did not like killing Jews but had no choice because he was fighting Russians. And I pointed out that Hitler managed to kill millions of Jews before he opened up the Eastern Front. Nobody today really knows how many were killed and when. Many, but not all, of the records were destroyed by the Nazis, in order to save their own skins when they lost the war. It wasn't until the fall of the Iron Curtain that Westerners finally got their hands on records from the East, and many of them remain to be catalogued. The Soviets didn't give a flip about the annihilation of Jews, they only focussed on the murder of Communists and Socialists. In the west, it was the reverse.

To: Maurice Winn who wrote (131191)	5/3/2004 11:45:35 PM
From: KLP	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Looks like man has had centuries of barbarism everywhere.... do you know anything about this, MW? Ancient Celtic / Scottish -Viking sites in New Zealand! (?) kilts.co.nz Unbelievable to orthodox historical opinion? Yes! But so were any New Zealand dinosaurs thirty or so years ago. Now there are many books on such creatures and they have been accepted by orthodox institutions in NZ. So what is the probability of old pre-Maori, Celtic sites? If you have an open and inquiring mind there are many facts, artifacts and oral and written histories that confirm the existence of pre-Maori populations in NZ. Our archaeology has yet to be properly investigated by archaeologists that do not have pre-conceived or politically motivated agendas. Very ancient written records in Europe and the old world confirm knowledge that New Zealand and Australia existed. However getting access to and acknowledgement of these records is difficult. Concocted historical opinion has been based on deliberate intent to discredit and cover up such knowledge. NZ and Australia are not the only countries bound up by such conspiracies. However this article is about a particular NZ example, with some general observations thrown in. The following is an example of an oral history supported by records held in Scotland. A book about this particular story, with supporting documentation is due for release sometime in the year 2000. As information is slowly released and clarified the story on this page is kept updated. For now it is simply an interesting saga with all the intrigue, and bravery of any Icelandic Saga. The heroes in it eventually suffer horrific deaths though this does not prevent their genes from carrying on generation after generation in a new land. In that, perhaps it was a more successful settlement than was the Viking settlement at Brattahild in Greenland. ..........>>>>>>>> con't.... The Brutal Lands The books; "The Musket Wars" by R.D.Crosby, ISBN 0-7900-0677-4 (an excellent honest portrayal of the genocidal cannibalistic ravages perpetrated by Maori tribe against tribe during the 1806-1840 period of modern NZ history). In this period the Maori were at last able to decimate the remnants of the Turehu, the Patupaiarehe and Waitaha peoples and the Moriori) and "Pakeha Maori" by Trevor Bentley ISBN 0-14-028540-7 (a book about pre-settler European contacts and inhabitants. The number of "dissident Europeans" with no love of British rule in NZ certainly would have provided the Maori knowledge on how to construct Pa (Ruapekapeka) along the lines of embattlements capable of withstanding cannon bombardment, such as was used in the USA at Ticonderoga and Bunker Hill. Belich's history of Maori military brilliance starts to fall apart with this realisation. It would seem that American whalers would have had the knowledge as would any number of Irish/Scots/English vagabonds that jumped ship, escaped from Van Diemans Land or where ever could easily have exchanged knowledge and provided military knowhow. These books confirm that some of the early Europeans had to join the Maori indulgence in cannibalism to stay alive. Many of them were eaten anyway. Cannibalism and infanticide, slavery and murder were rampant in Maori society, they threatened to exterminate the Maori (and the original tangata whenua, "people of the land") before the European arrived in significant numbers and Christianity introduced the concepts of value and respect for individual persons, and not just for self and kin. The old cannibalistic lack of value for fellow man or woman or child is a feature that has been contained but it emerges as the subject currently causing great concern in modern NZ society. That of child abuse. Especially the children of one particular sector of our society. The curses of cannibalism and murder carry on until the 7th generation and beyond if requirements of forgiveness and repentance are not met. We are not yet 7 generations away from the curses of cannibalism. The modern excuse by Maori of "suffering from post-colonial trauma" which the descendants of the European settler are being blamed for, is a load of nonsense. The problems lie with the very act of dwelling in the past, ancestral worship, and not having grabbed the opportunity to advance away from the ancient lifestyles and associated curses. Every nation in this world has been subjected to colonisation and immigration as well as emmigration. To use this as an excuse for the failure of many (not all by any means) Maori to adapt to a modern world with appropriate standards of civilised behaviour is reprehensible. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- An ancient people with horrific behaviour patterns? ........>>>>>cont'd kilts.co.nz

To: Maurice Winn who wrote (131191)	5/4/2004 1:01:54 AM
From: Nadine Carroll	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Not so fast there Nadine. CB was meaning just those in the concentration camps and actually murdered, up close and personal, not by starvation The Einsatzgruppen killed up close and personal, and their units were attached to the military in the invasion of Poland. They were wiping out whole towns all over German occupied Poland. Also, killing by artificially engineered starvation is certainly killing. The Germans imposed a rationing scheme in the ghettoes in which Jews got about 800 calories a day. There was nothing much done in 1939. It was only in 1940 that things were on a full-scale war footing with no holds barred and full-on carnage. Until then, there was some pussy-footing around I don't know what countries you're thinking of, but this certainly does not apply to Germany: The very moment the Germans entered a town or city, they turned the Jews into outcasts of society. On entering Warsaw, the Germans agreed to distribute soup to the hungry population, having extracted one million zloyts from the municipal administration for that purpose. The agreement stipulated that all the hungry in the city, without exception, were to benefit. Yet immediately the Germans began to eject the Jews from the soup lines, calling upon the Poles on the line to do the same "because the Jews deprive the Poles of their spoonful of soup."...Terror enveloped the Jews. The Germans reenacted the Kristallnacht in every town and city they invaded and occupied. All over Poland synagogues went up in flames...Everywhere the Germans organized pogroms, rounding up the non-Jewish population to witness and learn how to mock, abuse, injure and murder Jews. Unbridled killiing and senseless violence became daily commonplaces for the Jews; the fear of sudden death became normal and habitual. from The War Against the Jews: 1933 - 1945 by Lucy Dawidowicz, p 200