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To: Tenchusatsu who wrote (187730)5/3/2004 9:36:14 PM
From: tejek  Respond to of 1570799
 
Ted, rather than rebut each of your points, I'll just present my viewpoint on each issue you bring up:

1) Most of the "world" isn't going to be on America's side anyway. Clinton portrayed that image, but when it came down to accomplishing anything of importance, such as the Kosovo war, Clinton ran into the same anti-American vitrol that now dogs Bush. Of course, Clinton was a lot more sensitive to such criticism, and that almost cost us the victory in Kosovo.


That's not what happened with Bush I nor Clinton. You are rewriting history to fit your perspective much like Rush. No wonder you admire him.

2) Bush is hardly intellectually-demented when it comes to public speaking. He does have trouble reconciling his frankness when it comes to everyday talk, and a need to watch every word when it comes to public speaking, knowing that the public is going to dissect every single word and run away with anything they deem "newsworthy." It explains how "Wanted: Dead or Alive" became such a slogan, and it explains how "Bring 'em on" became a catch-phrase for the Anyone But Bush crowd.

Its more than being afraid to speak......he's intellectually challenged. Anyone can see that just by watching him. He can't remember things.......he get's lost. He mispronounces words. Uses poor grammar.

3) Bush has had a successful career as a businessman, baseball team owner, and governor of Texas. All are evidence of his people-managing skills. Sure, he had a rebel past, which he isn't proud of, but his sobering up and his redemption that followed is a defining moment of his life that shouldn't be denied.

Talk to people in TX.........TX is one of the states with a very severe budget crisis. Sound familiar? They blame Bush.

The TX Rangers job was a no brainer as was his oil career. Look much closer.......the word loser is everywhere. His family name and money got him where he is today.....not talent.

4) Bush indeed has the interests of his country in his heart. Tax cuts are his way of jump-starting an economy stalled by the biggest burst bubble of recent memory, not a "gift to the rich."

'Jump start' means fast........its been nearly 4 years and the economy is still floundering. This tax cut stuff is just plain TX BS.

His environmental policies are meant to cut bureaucracy and restore the balance between human need and environmental need, something liberals often forget to do. And one can argue that his neo-liberal policies, such as prescription drug benefits, are his way of reconciling tough conservativism with caring liberalism.

This is getting really sick..........his environmental policies are hurting the environment. Who needs companies to be fast-tracked to create pollution?

Cutting red tape to make pollution happen faster.........now that's a novel idea.....NOT!

5) The war in Iraq was not started on false premises, since even the U.N. believed Saddam had the weapons.

YES IT WAS............THE UN DID NOT KNOW THAT'S WHY THE WEAPON INSPECTORS WERE IN IRAQ. You all are just plain liars and trying to rewrite history to justify this war. Bull!

As for the execution of the war and its aftermath, I do agree that the problems were preventable, which is why I have wondered how long it's going to take before we stop trying to do everything ourselves.

It takes a big man to admit when he is wrong. Bush isn't big enough. That's why it hasn't happened yet. When we are good and bloodied and he thinks he will lose the election.......that's when the idiot prince will back down.

6) I agree 100% about the budget. If anything turns my opinion against Bush, this will be one of the major factors.

AMEN!

7) As usual, "tax cuts for the rich" is a slogan cooked up by those who believe in an even more lopsided tax curve. If only the rich pay most of the taxes, any tax cut that flattens the curve will obviously be seen as "favoring the rich." But it doesn't matter, as long as money is being spent more efficiently in the private and public sectors, rather than the inefficient bureaucracy that comes with any government agency.

Whatever.

8) I agree that we can handle our relationships with other countries a lot better. Once again, as soon as this administration figures out that even they can't do everything on their own, we'll make amends with those countries.

I don't think it will be that easy.

9) The Patriot Act hasn't even come close to the "police state" that many fear. Instead, its primary purpose is to give law enforcement the legal tools it needs to perform their duties without fundamentally infringing upon people's rights. It hasn't been perfect in avoiding every infringement possible, but tossing out the Patriot Act because of that is like tossing out the baby with the bathwater. As for "declaring war," name the last time Congress actually "declared war." As for Geneva conventions, the American military has been one of the strongest adherents to the Geneva convention. The failures, of course, are highlighted by the media, but the ratio of such instances to overall military power is extremely low. You can't say the same thing about ANY other nation's military, I guarantee you.

Great.......we are not just any country with any military. We are supposed to set the standard. Iraqi men were getting raped and the Commander in Chief looked the other way. I was worried about them torturing our guys and instead, we were doing it to them.

What do you think is happening to PFC. Maupin right now? I'll give you a couple of guesses. Oh that's right........according to neocons, what happens to one guy is not all that important except to his family. My sick liberal sense of humanity came to the surface again!

10) I agree that airport security gives more of the impression of security than actual security itself. I did notice a better streamlining of the security checkpoints once the TSA took over, which can be credited to Bush for what it's worth. But true security in the air isn't going to come from the government, but from the example shown by the passengers in Flight 93. And that's going to be a lot more effective than what Bush could ever hope to accomplish, much less be TONS more effective than the hand-waving alternatives the "Hate Bush" crowd could ever hope to come up with.

There, and I even kept my negative comments about the Bush-haters to a minimum. There are always many ways you can paint a picture, Ted, and there is hardly any way you can paint a more negative picture of what President Bush has done in the past four years. Of course, if Kerry gets elected, I can't wait for the "Anyone But Kerry" people to start painting with the same brush you are using right now.


I hope some day you will get it. This "anyone but Bush" attitude exists because Bush is the worst president in 100 years. You must be really biased not to see it.

ted






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To: Tenchusatsu who wrote (187730)5/4/2004 2:17:11 AM
From: Alighieri  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 1570799
 
1) Most of the "world" isn't going to be on America's side anyway. Clinton portrayed that image, but when it came down to accomplishing anything of importance, such as the Kosovo war, Clinton ran into the same anti-American vitrol that now dogs Bush. Of course, Clinton was a lot more sensitive to such criticism, and that almost cost us the victory in Kosovo.

The vitriol came from tom delay and the republicans...Did you know that the US did not suffer a single combat death in Kosovo? Did you know that the single most worryisome opponent in Kosovo was Russia, who considers Serbs as blood brothers. That's right Tench...Clinton took on Russia in Kosovo...and stopped Milosevich (now on trial at the Hague, on international law grounds) from further ethnic murdering. He did not swagger, he did not spread demagoguery and slogans. And still the strongest opposition came domestically from right wing politicians. The Europeans (save for Russia) were delighted.

Al



To: Tenchusatsu who wrote (187730)5/4/2004 2:27:43 AM
From: Alighieri  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 1570799
 
Pulp fictions triumph over truth

For those who backed Bush over war in Iraq, the idea of proof has shifted from fact to fervour

Sidney Blumenthal
Thursday April 29, 2004
The Guardian

Perhaps the most important divide in the presidential campaign is between fact and fiction. There are, of course, other sharp distinctions based on region and religiosity, guns and gays, abstinence and abortion. But were the election to be decided on domestic concerns alone, George Bush would be near certain to join the ranks of one-term presidents - like his father after the aura of the Gulf war evaporated.

But one year after Bush's triumphant May Day landing on the deck of the USS Lincoln and appearance behind a "Mission Accomplished" sign, his splendid little war has entered a Stalingrad-like phase of urban siege and house-to-house combat. April has been the bloodiest month by far - 122 US soldiers killed compared with 73 last April in the supposed last month of the war. The unending war has inspired among Bush's backers a rally-round-the-flag effect, a redoubling of belief.

They believe in the cause as articulated by the vice president, Dick Cheney, this week in his speech at Westminster College in Fulton, Missouri, where Winston Churchill delivered his "iron curtain" oration. "You and I are living in such a time" of the "gravest of threats", said Cheney. Once again, he explained the motive for the Iraq war, implicitly conflating Saddam Hussein with al-Qaida and oblivious to the failure to discover WMD.

"His regime cultivated ties to terror," he said, "and had built, possessed and used weapons of mass destruction." And Saddam "would still be in power", he continued, coming to the point of his allegory, if John Kerry, cast as Neville Chamberlain to Bush's Churchill, had had his way.

These misperceptions are pillars of Bush's support, according to a study by the University of Maryland: 57 % of those surveyed "believe that before the war Iraq was providing substantial support to al-Qaida", and 45% "believe that evidence that Iraq was supporting al-Qaida has been found". Moreover, 65% believe that "experts" have confirmed that Iraq had WMD.

Among those who perceived experts as saying that Iraq had WMD, 72% said they would vote for Bush and 23% for Kerry. Among those who perceived experts as saying that Iraq had supported al-Qaida, 62% said they would vote for Bush and 36% for Kerry. The reason given by respondents for their views was that they had heard these claims from the Bush administration.

These political pulp fictions are believed out of faith and fear. This is a classic case study in "the will to believe", as the American philosopher William James called it. The greater insecurity would be not to believe Bush. It would mean the president had lied on issues of national security. And how could the Iraq war be seen as a pure, moral choice once good had been shown to be false? The idea of proof has shifted from fact to fervour.

The attack lines against Kerry are that he is an opponent of national security and un-American. When Kerry committed the gaffe of uttering the truth that many world leaders secretly hope for his victory, he provided the Bush campaign with an opening. The secretary of commerce, Donald Evans, has repeatedly said that Kerry "looks French". The Republican house majority leader, Tom DeLay, begins every speech: "As John Kerry would say, bonjour."
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The European mission this month of Senator Joseph Biden, a Democrat on the foreign relations committee, is a telling if overlooked footnote to the campaign xenophobia. After meetings with Jacques Chirac and at Downing Street, he learned first-hand of the Bush administration's almost complete lack of consultation. Chirac offered first steps toward French assistance in Iraq, and Biden wrote a letter spelling them out to Bush, who referred him to the national security adviser, Condoleezza Rice, who in turn politely listened and never responded.

Meanwhile, the Republican chairman of the committee, Senator Richard Lugar, who has been granted just one meeting in the past year with the president, remarked to negligible press notice: "The diplomacy is deficient. By that I simply mean not many people agree with us, or like us, or are prepared to work with us. That will really have to change." A senate source told me: "The only hope for real internationalisation is in regime change in the United States."


The brazen smears about Kerry's wounds and medals, his voting record on military programmes as a senator, and his loyalty, have been communicated by the Bush-Cheney campaign through an estimated $50m in TV and radio advertising in less than 60 days in 17 swing states. This storm of unremitting negativity has bolstered the faith of his supporters, tested by recent events, and has managed to maintain the contest at a draw.

The attacks against Kerry are a bodyguard of lies to protect the original ones who are the praetorian guard of Bush's presidency.