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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (131373)	5/5/2004 8:33:09 AM
From: Maurice Winn	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

Nadine, CB made an incorrect comment [as a side point to her main intent]. Being a bit pedantic where a million or two people murdered is concerned, I pointed out that Dachau didn't involve mass extermination of Jews in 1933. That it was 1941 that the mass extermination got underway, meaning shipping great numbers to gas chambers and incinerators. Which is not to deny that after war got underway in late 1939 with the invasion of Poland, there were many thousands of Jews murdered as part of a policy. I simply said there were not millions, which I still think there weren't, by 1941. I'm not reading the book because I don't want to have more detail on what went on. I've got a good enough idea thanks. In regard to the starvation, as I explained, our neighbour was starved in Holland. So it wasn't just Jews in Poland who were not getting enough to eat. My uncle was a prisoner of war for a year or two. He didn't get enough to eat either, being as skinny as a rake, but I think it must have been more than 800 calories. Lack of food was a major issue. So, there still weren't millions of Jews killed in extermination camps in 1933, or 1934, or 1935, or 1936, o4 1937, or 1938, or 1939, or 1940, though there were many thousands of Jews specifically targeted and murdered then but still not millions, or 1941, but in that year the mass killings really got going and numbers moved from 1000s into 100s of 1000s and shortly into millions. I don't know how many millions in total. My original point was that concentration camps, as with so many things, start nice and easy, for a good reason, then little by little, we find ourselves back where we started. The price of liberty is eternal vigilance, as they say. People seem to make the mistake of scanning the horizon for the suppression of liberty as though it's a bad guy who comes from afar, whereas they should look closer to home, as close as inside their own hearts and minds. Guantanamo Bay is a concentration camp, just as Dachau was a concentration camp, built to imprison political opponents and undesirables. I'm merely noting a similarity. It's qualitatively different from a normal prison where convicted criminals are kept. There is no habeas corpus, there is no judicial jurisdiction, people are put there by military and political decision, with no communication, no lawyer, no family, no nothing, no trial, indefinitely. We are expected to just accept that whoever put them there had good reason. Well, we've seen such 'disappeared' people in other contexts. Now we've seen interrogation 'softening up'. How are human rights in China going? I bet it's been a while since any USA politicians have harangued China's politicians about human rights - they'd be laughed out of town. Mqurice