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Politics : Formerly About Advanced Micro Devices -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: tejek who wrote (187949)5/6/2004 3:27:51 AM
From: tejek  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 1584048
 
May 6, 2004


Baghdad Blast Reportedly Kills 6; Troops, Insurgents Clash in South

BAGHDAD — A car bomb exploded early this morning near a U.S. military checkpoint at the 14th of July Bridge, which leads into the Green Zone, as scores of mainly Iraqi contractors who work for the U.S.-led coalition were lined up in cars waiting to enter.

The U.S. military confirmed that there were casualties but did not say how many. Wire services said one U.S. soldier and five Iraqis were dead, along with an unknown number of wounded.







It was the first car bomb in Baghdad in about seven weeks — one of the longest stretches since last fall without one.

Abu Hussein, a 60-year-old Iraqi who works for KBR, a subsidiary of Halliburton, said he was standing by his car waiting to be searched when the bomb detonated, sending a pillar of black smoke into the air with an explosion that shook windows a couple of miles away and set off sirens in the Green Zone.

"It must have been in a [minibus], it was so big," said Hussein, who was limping from a shrapnel injury covered by a makeshift bandage stained with blood. "I was afraid; I ran away," he said.

A second witness, Ali Saber, 25, said he saw bodies of several Iraqis.

Elsewhere in Iraq, the U.S. military — after weeks of focusing on the Sunni Muslim stronghold of Fallouja — turned its attention Wednesday to the second major front in its effort to bring Iraq under control: the Shiite-dominated areas of south-central Iraq where anti-American cleric Muqtada Sadr holds sway.

In battles in the city of Diwaniya, the pilgrimage center of Karbala and in Kufa, whose shrine is held by Sadr's militia, the U.S. military fought with militiamen.

Several insurgents were killed in Diwaniya, several more in Karbala and five in Kufa, said Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, the military spokesman for the U.S.-led coalition.

Three U.S. soldiers were killed Tuesday in Diwaniya, according to the U.S. military, and news wires reported that one soldier had died in the fighting in Karbala. More than 750 U.S. troops have been reported killed since the invasion last spring.

Meanwhile, Fallouja was calm, although it appeared increasingly doubtful that the newly formed Fallouja protective force would meet the coalition's demand to find and detain foreign fighters. The Iraqi commander of the force said he saw no signs of foreigners among the insurgents.

The U.S. military moves in south-central Iraq came early Wednesday, just after talks among influential Iraqi Shiite politicians and religious and tribal leaders. The meeting marked the first time they were united in urging Sadr to withdraw his militia from the southern cities and to stop stockpiling weapons in shrines and cemeteries of the Shiite Muslim holy city of Najaf.

The initiative by Shiite leaders looked unlikely to lead to quick results, but it was a breakthrough for the Shiite community to agree on a position. Sadr greeted the proposal with little enthusiasm, and a spokesman, Qais Khazaali, complained that the U.S.-led coalition had failed to make any move toward compromise.

The coalition has repeatedly said that it wants Sadr to give himself up to the Iraqi justice system for investigation of his alleged role in the slaying of a rival cleric in April 2003 and to disband his Al Mahdi militia.

The militia opened fire near Najaf's city center in the area surrounding the Imam Ali shrine. As the sound of semiautomatic weapons fire and rocket-propelled grenades reverberated, shopkeepers fled their stores and people ran from the shrine in a panic. The city was paralyzed, and calm was restored an hour later when the firing stopped.

Witnesses said that Sadr's soldiers justified their actions, saying they had seen American armored vehicles, but no one else confirmed that contention.

"The city is quiet now, but everyone is tense and the Mahdi is roaming the city on high alert," said a shopkeeper who works near the shrine.

In early April, Sadr instigated a Shiite uprising in central and southern Iraq, using his Al Mahdi militia to take over police stations and government buildings and to occupy the shrine to Imam Ali, visited by Shiite pilgrims from all over the world.

Iraqi leaders have warned U.S. commanders to steer clear of assaults on Sadr in Najaf because even those Shiites who oppose him might be swayed if one of the most holy Shiite places was violated by U.S. troops, who are resented as occupiers.

For Najaf residents, Sadr's presence has been particularly punitive because the city lives largely on income from pilgrims. Few have made the pilgrimage since the city was besieged.

Outside Kufa, U.S. forces attacked a van where Iraqis were seen unloading weapons, Kimmitt said. The vehicle was destroyed and five Iraqis were killed.

In Karbala, a U.S. raid targeted three locations where forces believed Sadr's militia stored weapons: a hotel, the former Baath Party building and a former government building. A gun battle lasting several hours took place at the government building, and coalition forces took control after killing several insurgents and detaining others.

In Fallouja, former Iraqi army Gen. Mohammed Latif, who is running the Fallouja protective force, told reporters that he thought foreign fighters probably played only a small role in the insurgency that U.S. Marines are battling.

Latif, a former head of Iraqi army intelligence, said his initial forays into Fallouja have uncovered little evidence of foreign fighters. "I didn't see anyone, and I have no information about anyone," Latif told reporters after a 90-minute meeting with Maj. Gen. James N. Mattis, commander of the 1st Marine Division.

Pressed on the issue, Latif smiled and said, "Maybe there's more than 30 of them underground, and the rest escaped."

May 6, 2004


Baghdad Blast Reportedly Kills 6; Troops, Insurgents Clash in South

BAGHDAD — A car bomb exploded early this morning near a U.S. military checkpoint at the 14th of July Bridge, which leads into the Green Zone, as scores of mainly Iraqi contractors who work for the U.S.-led coalition were lined up in cars waiting to enter.

The U.S. military confirmed that there were casualties but did not say how many. Wire services said one U.S. soldier and five Iraqis were dead, along with an unknown number of wounded.







It was the first car bomb in Baghdad in about seven weeks — one of the longest stretches since last fall without one.

Abu Hussein, a 60-year-old Iraqi who works for KBR, a subsidiary of Halliburton, said he was standing by his car waiting to be searched when the bomb detonated, sending a pillar of black smoke into the air with an explosion that shook windows a couple of miles away and set off sirens in the Green Zone.

"It must have been in a [minibus], it was so big," said Hussein, who was limping from a shrapnel injury covered by a makeshift bandage stained with blood. "I was afraid; I ran away," he said.

A second witness, Ali Saber, 25, said he saw bodies of several Iraqis.

Elsewhere in Iraq, the U.S. military — after weeks of focusing on the Sunni Muslim stronghold of Fallouja — turned its attention Wednesday to the second major front in its effort to bring Iraq under control: the Shiite-dominated areas of south-central Iraq where anti-American cleric Muqtada Sadr holds sway.

In battles in the city of Diwaniya, the pilgrimage center of Karbala and in Kufa, whose shrine is held by Sadr's militia, the U.S. military fought with militiamen.

Several insurgents were killed in Diwaniya, several more in Karbala and five in Kufa, said Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, the military spokesman for the U.S.-led coalition.

Three U.S. soldiers were killed Tuesday in Diwaniya, according to the U.S. military, and news wires reported that one soldier had died in the fighting in Karbala. More than 750 U.S. troops have been reported killed since the invasion last spring.

Meanwhile, Fallouja was calm, although it appeared increasingly doubtful that the newly formed Fallouja protective force would meet the coalition's demand to find and detain foreign fighters. The Iraqi commander of the force said he saw no signs of foreigners among the insurgents.

The U.S. military moves in south-central Iraq came early Wednesday, just after talks among influential Iraqi Shiite politicians and religious and tribal leaders. The meeting marked the first time they were united in urging Sadr to withdraw his militia from the southern cities and to stop stockpiling weapons in shrines and cemeteries of the Shiite Muslim holy city of Najaf.

The initiative by Shiite leaders looked unlikely to lead to quick results, but it was a breakthrough for the Shiite community to agree on a position. Sadr greeted the proposal with little enthusiasm, and a spokesman, Qais Khazaali, complained that the U.S.-led coalition had failed to make any move toward compromise.

The coalition has repeatedly said that it wants Sadr to give himself up to the Iraqi justice system for investigation of his alleged role in the slaying of a rival cleric in April 2003 and to disband his Al Mahdi militia.

The militia opened fire near Najaf's city center in the area surrounding the Imam Ali shrine. As the sound of semiautomatic weapons fire and rocket-propelled grenades reverberated, shopkeepers fled their stores and people ran from the shrine in a panic. The city was paralyzed, and calm was restored an hour later when the firing stopped.

Witnesses said that Sadr's soldiers justified their actions, saying they had seen American armored vehicles, but no one else confirmed that contention.

"The city is quiet now, but everyone is tense and the Mahdi is roaming the city on high alert," said a shopkeeper who works near the shrine.

In early April, Sadr instigated a Shiite uprising in central and southern Iraq, using his Al Mahdi militia to take over police stations and government buildings and to occupy the shrine to Imam Ali, visited by Shiite pilgrims from all over the world.

Iraqi leaders have warned U.S. commanders to steer clear of assaults on Sadr in Najaf because even those Shiites who oppose him might be swayed if one of the most holy Shiite places was violated by U.S. troops, who are resented as occupiers.

For Najaf residents, Sadr's presence has been particularly punitive because the city lives largely on income from pilgrims. Few have made the pilgrimage since the city was besieged.

Outside Kufa, U.S. forces attacked a van where Iraqis were seen unloading weapons, Kimmitt said. The vehicle was destroyed and five Iraqis were killed.

In Karbala, a U.S. raid targeted three locations where forces believed Sadr's militia stored weapons: a hotel, the former Baath Party building and a former government building. A gun battle lasting several hours took place at the government building, and coalition forces took control after killing several insurgents and detaining others.

In Fallouja, former Iraqi army Gen. Mohammed Latif, who is running the Fallouja protective force, told reporters that he thought foreign fighters probably played only a small role in the insurgency that U.S. Marines are battling.

Latif, a former head of Iraqi army intelligence, said his initial forays into Fallouja have uncovered little evidence of foreign fighters. "I didn't see anyone, and I have no information about anyone," Latif told reporters after a 90-minute meeting with Maj. Gen. James N. Mattis, commander of the 1st Marine Division.

Pressed on the issue, Latif smiled and said, "Maybe there's more than 30 of them underground, and the rest escaped."

latimes.com



To: tejek who wrote (187949)5/17/2004 5:53:59 PM
From: TimF  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 1584048
 
"Another example of attacking the person rather then just the idea. "

Like you really know what that's like. Try being someone who had liberal beliefs three years ago. The attacks from the right were unmerciful. I was amazed at how in your face they were. I will never forget it.


Yes I do know what it is like, and not just from SI. Your right that it goes both ways. I'm sure you have faced such attacks. It is, and probably always has been to a greater or lesser extent a staple of political debate and rhetoric. But the fact that such attacks are nothing new doesn't mean that they are a good thing or that pointing them out is something wrong.

I'm sure that some people do change for such self motivated reasons but you said "the only reason". Many libertarians and conservatives are motivated by idealistic reasons or by pragmatic reasons for the country as a whole, not solely for personal benefit.

Well, it seems until recently, they have been fairly quiet about their principles. JF has pointed out that as a conservative, he sees considerable divergence from conservative principles and what's espoused by this White House. And since he spoken out, I've seen that American Conservative magazine is taking stances that is in direct conflict with this WH. All I can say is that its about time.


1 - Conservatives disagreeing with this administration or other Republican administrations isn't a new thing that didn't exist until very recently. The disagreements where muted a bit after 9/11 but that was over 2 and 1/2 years ago and even when they where muted they didn't go away.

2 - The paragraph you quoted and responded to was more about motivation. Some people who agree with most of the ideas of the current administration (and Clinton's, Bush Sr.'s, Reagan's, Carter's ect.) do so for idealistic reasons, others due so because they think these policies will bring practical benefits to our country. Of course others do so because they want benefits to a narrow special interest. Some people might have all three of these reasons, perhaps one reason for one policy and one reason for another, or even 2 or three of these reasons for a single policy (for example I support lower taxes for all three reasons). All of what I said in this paragraph applies to every administration in the history of the US.

Tim