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Politics : Should God be replaced? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Greg or e who wrote (17376)5/6/2004 10:04:58 PM
From: Solon  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 28931
 
”Luther was indeed a bigot, but his bigotry was not biblical. The bible does not lie, Luther was wrong

This reminds me of George Bernard Shaw:

"No man ever believes that the Bible means what it says; he is always convinced that it says what he means."

I will point out to you that Luther was an eminent scholar who is almost deified by many. He also translated the bible into German, so for you to suggest he does not know it as well as you is rather amusing!

This is not to say it is necessary that a Christian be a racist. Most of the bible is never preached, after all. But you are well aware that many Christian sects are very racist and that they justify it through the bible just as Luther did.

”It's easy to anachronistically leap from the sixteenth to the twentieth Century.

Is it? Was it a leap? The centuries are connected by years and by days. Ideas live on for thousands of years and inform each generation. The connection between Luther and Nazi hatred of Jews is not disputed in rational circles.

”Here's a News Flash for you,,,, HITLER WAS NOT A CHRISTIAN.

Here is a news flash for you!

”My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.

-Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 [Baynes]

Here are more news flashes from those who knew him best!

”Although he himself [Hitler] was a Catholic, he wished the Protestant Church to have a stronger position in Germany, since Germany was two-thirds Protestant.

-Hermann Göring (Trial of The Major War Criminals Before the International Military Tribunal, Nuremberg, 1945, Vol.9)

______________________

You Einsatztruppen (task forces) are called upon to fulfill a repulsive duty. But you are soldiers who have to carry out every order unconditionally. You have a responsibility before God and Hitler for everything that is happening. I myself hate this bloody business and I have been moved to the depths of my soul. But I am obeying the highest law by doing my duty. Man must defend himself against bedbugs and rats-- against vermin.

-Heinrich Himmler, in a speech to the SS guards, (Hitler's Elite, Shocking Profiles of the Reich's Most Notorious Henchmen," Berkley Books, 1990)

(The mass murderer Himmler got brought up as a devout Catholic, like young Hitler, and was careful to attend mass regularly.)

Joseph Goebbels

The pious Catholic parents of Joseph Goebbels raised him and his two brothers in that faith. He spoke of Hitler as "either Christ or St. John." "Hitler, I love you!" he wrote in his diary.

”A Jew is for me an object of disgust. I feel like vomiting when I see one. Christ could not possibly have been a Jew. It is not necessary to prove that scientifically-- it is a fact.

”If the danger of the reproduction of that curse of God in the Jewish blood is finally to come to an end, then there is only one way-- the extermination of that people whose father is the devil...

-Julius Streicher paraphrasing John 8:44 as his justification for extermination (Trial of The Major War Criminals Before the International Military Tribunal, Nuremberg, 1945, Vol. 12)

”Only the Jews, he shouted, had remained victorious after the dreadful days of World War I. These were the people, he charged, of whom Christ said, "Its father is the devil."

-Julius Streicher [See John 8:44, for Christ's accusation of father the devil], (Hitler's Elite, Shocking Profiles of the Reich's Most Notorious Henchmen," Berkley Books, 1990)

”Germans must fight Jews, that organized body of world criminals against whom Christ, the greatest anti-Semite of all time, had fought.

-Julius Streicher (Hitler's Elite, Shocking Profiles of the Reich's Most Notorious Henchmen," Berkley Books, 1990)

During the Nuremberg trials, Streicher was asked about his participation in the Nuremberg Race laws of 1935. He responded:

”Yes, I believe I had a part in it insofar as for years I have written that any further mixture of German blood with Jewish blood must be avoided. I have written such articles again and again; and in my articles I have repeatedly emphasized the fact that the Jews should serve as an example to every race, for they created the racial law for themselves-- the law of Moses, which says, "If you come into a foreign land you shall not take unto yourself foreign women." And that, Gentlemen, is of tremendous importance in judging the Nuremberg Laws.. These laws of the Jews were taken as a model for these laws. When after centuries, the Jewish lawgiver Ezra demonstrated that notwithstanding many Jews had married non-Jewish women, these marriages were dissolved. That was the beginning of Jewry which, because it introduced these racial laws, has survived throughout the centuries, while all other races and civilizations have perished.

-Julius Streicher, (Trial of The Major War Criminals Before the International Military Tribunal, Nuremberg, 1945, Vol. 12)


[Note, although Streicher had a part in the race laws, Hitler outlined his religious justification for the race laws in his private notes before he came into power.)

When asked if there were any other anti-Semitic publications, other than Der Stürmer, published in Germany, Streicher replied:

”Anti-Semitic publications have existed in Germany for centuries. A book I had, written by Dr. Martin Luther, was, for instance, confiscated. Dr. Martin Luther would very probably sit in my place in the defendants' dock today, if this book had been taken into consideration by the Prosecution. In this book The Jews and Their Lies, Dr. Martin Luther writes that the Jews are a serpent's brood and one should burn down their synagogues and destroy them...

-Julius Streicher, (Trial of The Major War Criminals Before the International Military Tribunal, Nuremberg, 1945, Vol. 12)

Well, Greg…I could go on and on. It sounds to me like the Nazis were certainly Christians—from Hitler on down—and that they were assisted in their “theology” by the great biblical scholar, Dr. Martin Luther.

Why is it hard for you to admit the truth? Nobody identifies your form of Christianity with the most literal interpretation. Nobody here believes you are part of some White Supremacist Christian group. So why deny the obvious. The enmity between Christians and Jews has been written down through the centuries by pen and by sword. The record is stained in ink and in blood. Why deny what is obvious history?

What do you wish to tell us? That hatred of Jews has nothing to do with the bible or Christianity? That it is a biological or genetic trait? That the passion stirred up by the recent movie of Christ was all about the fear that the movie would tweak some genetic virus? That the passionate appeal to biblical texts by the Nazis was to further a genetic hate? And it was not because they were passionate about their beliefs? That Luther was not passionate or sincere in his beliefs? Come on, Greg. Don’t be absurd!

”Hitller’s actions were inconsistent with biblical morality, but perfectly consistent with yours

What a despicable and ignorant little rat you are. You can’t even converse without throwing in vicious lies and insults. You remind me of Luther. You know very well (and I have stated it here 10,000 times) that I believe in freedom and the pursuit of happiness and equality amongst all people irrespective of race, color, or creed. You disgust me.

"No man ever believes that the Bible means what it says; he is always convinced that it says what he means."



To: Greg or e who wrote (17376)5/6/2004 10:11:47 PM
From: Solon  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 28931
 
ffrf.org

Holocaust

Part 4: Catholic Reaction To The Nazi Holocaust
By Michael Hakeem, Ph.D.


"The specter of Martin Luther was a haunting presence in Nazism and was in attendance at the Holocaust. Numerous scholars have taken note of that fact.
For example, Professor Robert J. Wistrich, one of the profoundest students of worldwide anti-Semitism, writes: "The seed of hatred sown by Luther would reach its horrible climax in the Third Reich when German Protestants showed themselves to be particularly receptive to Nazi antisemitism."

The Lutheran editor of the American translation of Luther's works comments: "It is impossible to publish Luther's treatise today . . . without noting how similar to his proposals were the actions of the National Socialist regime in Germany in the 1930's and 1940's." The Nazis would now and then pay tribute to their mentor by staging an event on a date or at a place associated with him. They declared, for example, that their first large-scale pogrom against the Jews in November, 1938 was a pious operation performed in honor of the anniversary of Luther's birthday.

To cite but one more example, the installation of Ludwig MŸller as Reich Bishop was conducted with great fanfare in the church at Wittenberg where Luther had preached. Hitler, in Mein Kampf, names Luther as one of the great heroes of the German people. The historian, Professor Friedrich Heer, is authority for the knowledge that Hitler "was prepared to concede that Luther had prepared the way for his own work." He quotes Hitler as saying, as early as 1918: "He saw the Jew as we are only now beginning to see him today." (Ominous.)

What was it that Luther offered that made him so attractive to the Nazis? It was a book-length treatise, On the Jews and Their Lies, in which he gave expression to his unbridled, not to say utterly maniacal, detestation of Jews, and which contained more than a hint of genocidal intentions toward them. Luther's vehement attacks on the Jews were frequently recalled and widely disseminated by the Nazis. The original edition of Luther's loathsome volume was exhibited in a special glass case at party rallies in Nuremberg.

In page after page of Hitler's ranting against the Jews in Mein Kampf, one soon comes to realize that echoes of Martin Luther are being heard. Julius Streicher, the chief party ideologist of anti-Semitism, argued in his defense at the Nuremberg trials that he had never said anything about the Jews that Martin Luther had not said four hundred years earlier.

No paraphrase or brief excerpts can give the full flavor of the seething hatred with which Luther assailed the Jews. It has to be read to be believed. He can hardly find words vile enough to describe what he apparently believes are creatures endowed with very little of human qualities. There is no malevolence, crime, immorality, and depravity he does not attribute to them. He even resorts to gross obscenities.

Luther is not satisfied merely to mouth all this vitriol. He calls on the civil authorities to implement some hideously cruel measures against the Jews. He recommends that their synagogues be burned. Their houses should be destroyed and they should be forced to live like Gypsies under one roof or in a stable. Their prayer books and Talmuds should be taken away from them. Their rabbis should be forbidden to teach, and they should be killed if they violate the prohibition. They should not be permitted to travel. They should be deprived of all their cash, silver, and gold. The young and strong, both men and women, should be forced to do hard, menial labor. If, after all this, the Christians still feel threatened, the Jews should be expelled from the land.

At times, Luther seems as if he is all but calling for a holocaust: "We are at fault in not slaying them."


In their reaction to the Holocaust, the churches, the clergy, the theologians, and Christians at large had an opportunity to show if there is substance to their claim that only a Christian presence can yield peace, justice, regard for the preciousness of every human creature, and universal love. Christians were put to the test by Nazism and the Holocaust and failed miserably. They predominantly allied themselves with the Nazis, and they remained essentially silent about the major moral issue that confronted them--the staggering abuse, torture, enslavement, and slaughter of many millions of men, women, and children for no other reason than that they were Jews. An insignificant number, mighty or humble, spoke out against it.

One embarks on treacherous waters when seeking the truth on this Germanic nightmare. Unless one has a thorough knowledge of the vast and ever-increasing relevant research and scholarship one can be fed much disinformation. Christian apologists are fond of citing this or that instance of resistance to Nazism or of some rescue of Jews as representative of common practice. Indeed, there were such isolated instances but they were just that.

Most important is the larger picture. What did the churches do officially? Were Christians massively opposed to what the Nazis were doing? Did important church leaders, aroused by Christian reflex, unhesitatingly and unceasingly publicly condemn the slaughter of the Jews?

Consider the Catholic Church. Only a few months after Hitler came to power, the Vatican joined him in a Concordat whereby it agreed to recognize the legitimacy of his regime and to abolish all Catholic political and social organizations in Germany in return for some concessions to the Church which Hitler proceeded very soon to disregard.

The Concordat had stifling effects on any possibility of protest, and it served to confirm the propriety of support of the regime by millions of Catholics. The eagerness with which the Vatican came to terms with the Hitler regime could be expected from the history of its penchant for "forging diplomatic links with conservative or even fascist regimes [because] it found most aspects of right-wing regimes congenial," to convey the point in the words of Professor of History Michael R. Marrus.

Professor Friedrich Heer, in his magnificently researched God's First Love, backs him up, as do many other historians. Heer gives a lengthy and vivid account of the political leanings (anti-democratic, anti-liberal, anti-Semitic, anti-enlightenment) of Catholicism and the Church's leaders. It is this that led them swiftly into the Nazi fold and, once in, kept them from opposing even the extermination of the Jews. Supporting his conclusions with copious excerpts from Catholic publications, Heer shows the extraordinary support the Church gave the Nazi regime as well as its wars, which most historians regard as flagrantly aggressive and monumentally unjust. He observes: "Catholic theologians rightly discovered many affinities between Nazi ideology and Catholicism. . . . Many church papers . . . became virtually propaganda organs of National Socialism." Heer finds that "the [Catholic] press worked smoothly in the service of the war propaganda machine."

If Christianity is the only dependable bulwark against human cruelty and depravity, tyranny and unmitigated slaughter, as its advocates claim, it requires that Christians at least say something against such abhorrences, doesn't it? And certainly Christians should refrain from participating in them, shouldn't they? As has been said, only a few German Catholics, high or low, spoke out against the Nazi treatment of the Jews, and large numbers of them participated in the work of rounding up, transporting, working to death, running the concentration camps, waging the wars, and executing innocents. Millions of Catholic soldiers, vigorously prodded by their bishops and priests, proudly fought in Hitler's unjust and rapacious wars. In fact, evidence has been uncovered that some churches checked their birth records at the request of the government in order to sort out Jews for it.

What about the Pope (Pius XII reigned during most of the era), topmost Roman Catholic, exemplar of Christian truth and virtue, Vicar of Christ, moral teacher of his flock and of the world, defender of the right, promoter of unrestricted brotherhood and universal love, and infallible interpreter of every wish and instruction of God? In statements the likes of which occur in a multitude of objective histories by other scholars, Professor Nora Levin concludes that the Pope "did not condemn the exterminations or exterminators as such. The Vatican . . . remained silent through the Holocaust . . . . Appeals were made to the Vatican by Jews in the midst of the Holocaust and those distant from it. But the hoped-for protest never came."

Appeals to the Pope that he speak out specifically against the genocide of the Jews came from many quarters, Jewish and non-Jewish. The Pope was immovable. On several occasions, President Roosevelt's personal representative to the Vatican outrightly requested the Pope to condemn the "incredible horrors" perpetrated by the Nazis. Immovable. In one try, the President's representative forwarded to the Papal Secretary of State a memorandum from the Jewish Agency reporting mass executions of Jews in Poland and occupied Russia and deportations from several nations to the death camps and asked for suggestions as to how world opinion can be brought to bear so the barbarities would cease. The Secretary replied that it had not been possible to verify that such measures were being taken against the Jews. Immovable.

Actually there is rather conclusive documentation that the Vatican knew about it very early. After the Allies had denounced the extermination in December 1942, the United States representative again asked the Papal Secretary to issue a similar denunciation. The Secretary replied that the Vatican, pursuing a policy of neutrality, could not protest specific atrocities and could only condemn immoral actions in general. (The highest representative of Christ on earth was strictly forbidden from speaking out specifically about the slaughter of millions of innocent human beings.)

There are two bits of evidence that lead to the hypothesis that the reasons given by the Vatican for refusing to object to the extermination of the Jews were nothing but rationalizations. One is the fact that it had intervened on behalf of Catholics of Jewish descent. The other is the Vatican's joining in the widespread protest against the euthanasia program that disposed of Gypsies and other "unfit," a protest that had at least some positive effects.

Millions of human beings throughout history have learned that sometimes it is dangerous to live in Christian countries, not to mention countries where other religions prevail, especially lethal when religion and government are allied.

The final Part 5 will examine the even more dismal performance of the Protestants."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Hakeem, Ph.D. is Professor Emeritus of Sociology at the University of Wisconsin, Madison. He and his wife Helen are regular volunteers at the Foundation's Freethought Hall.



To: Greg or e who wrote (17376)5/6/2004 10:13:57 PM
From: Solon  Respond to of 28931
 
Presenting one of the most revered and followed Christians of all time. Ladies and gentlemen...Dr. Martin Luther!

humanitas-international.org



To: Greg or e who wrote (17376)5/6/2004 10:17:04 PM
From: Solon  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 28931
 
Oscar Wilde (1854-1900), Irish author and Playwright

"When I think of all the harm the Bible has done, I despair of ever writing anything equal to it."