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Politics : Should God be replaced? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Greg or e who wrote (17391)5/7/2004 1:41:15 AM
From: Solon  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 28931
 
"I see, and you believe every politicians claims? His actions speak louder than his empty words."

His words were not empty. His acts are eery beside the biblical record of genocide, cruelty, and racism. Do you think that Hitlerian genocide can compare with the multiple tribal genocides of the bible? Give your head a shake. On what basis do you condemn one and exhort the other? They are both the acts of racist pigs. But it must not be forgotten which preceded which.

nobeliefs.com

Hitler compared to God/Jesus/Christians

by Jim Walker

Introduction

"The history of Adolf Hitler reported by Christian authors usually attempt to show him as un-Christian or avoid discussions of his religion altogether. This should not surprise anyone considering that publishing in a Christianized country tends to protect itself from any stigma of atheism and could very well hurt book sales, not to mention damage the reputation of its authors. Even many Jewish authors must take care not to offend the religious sensibilities of their audiences.

Unfortunately most books about Hitler, from a religious viewpoint, come as bowdlerized accounts containing flagrant inaccuracies. There occur many versions, some of which view Hitler with combinations of occultism, atheism, anti-Christ, anti-Christian, etc. Some authors blend the anti-Catholic views of Martin Bormann or the mystical beliefs of Rosenberg with Hitler in an attempt to rewrite history. Almost all the sources for Hitler's alleged apostasy come from Bormann's edited version of Hitler's Table Talk (for a closer examination, see "Hitler's table talk and other extraneous sources"). But Hitler was not Bormann or Rosenberg and they were not him. Hitler abscised himself from the views of Bormann and Rosenberg and demanded support for his view of "positive" Christianity as was written into the Nazi party program. If you examine the historical record with raw honesty, you will find that these counter-Christian claims about Hitler simply do not hold up.

Fortunately, I am neither a Christian, Jew, or of any religious persuasion. Neither do I have a reputation or sales to protect. Although I am certainly not the first to point out Hitler's Christianity, but from my position, I think I can present an honest look at Hitler's belief-system without a religious bias to get in the way. If the following offends anyone, then I can, on reasoned grounds, declare that it can only come from the facts themselves and not from any feeling I may have against Christianity. In fact, although I see great dangers of beliefs, especially those of violent belief-systems such as Christianity, I have no ill feelings toward Christians themselves, anymore than I do heron addicts, even though I may abash the dangers of drugs. So from this viewpoint, I aim to expose Hitler's Christianity in the expectation to open the door somewhat to the light of examination, especially for Christians but to anyone who has a concern for the mechanism of belief and the dangers it can produce.

My main aim intends to educate without resorting to ad homenims or dishonesty. Indeed, it will take certain courage and honesty for any Christian to read this without feeling offended. However, I admire anyone who attempts to read this, and hope that they will do further research, check my sources, and reserve judgment.

My information comes not from my beliefs or my interpretation of his beliefs. The information comes directly from the very words of Hitler himself, from his private notes, conversations, writings, and speeches. I will show that he clearly reveals his Christianity, not only from his paraphrasing of the Bible, but from his confession as a Christian, his triune god-like actions and how his faith parallels the belief of Christians today.

I have clippped some of the Hitler quotes for brevity. For a fuller quote, go to the page on Mein Kampf quotes (click here) or to Hitler's speeches (click here).

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Hitler, the Christian

Hitler not only got brought up as a Roman Catholic Christian, but he expressed his Christian views into adulthood, including his period as Chancellor of the German Third Reich. One only need read Mein Kampf to see the extent of his Biblical beliefs. The German populace knew well about Hitler's book and it became a best-seller second only to the Bible. Furthermore, Hitler expressed his Christian feelings even more intensely in his speeches and proclamations throughout his power reign.

Although some might counter that Hitler's admission to Christianity, by itself, does not make one a Christian, how else can an individual convey to another his religion except from their own confession? One of the tenants of Christian belief, indeed the definition of a Christian, comes from the Pauline epistiles in regards to faith in Jesus:

Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

-Galatians 2:16

To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

-Romans 3:26-28

Paul, by declaring faith in Jesus over law, effectively separated Christianity from Judaism. It came from these Pauline declarations that first defined Christianity. Belief in Jesus serves as the only requirement for membership into the Christian community. Christianity does not require adhering to Old Testament laws or membership to any Church or abstaining from evil deeds. One need only have faith in Jesus for its justification, period.

Although Hitler did not attend church regularly and later criticized the Church for their rejection of his reformation of a unified German Church, at no time did Hitler criticize God or Jesus. He always maintained an honor and belief in Jesus. This alone put him as a Christian believer. But Hitler went beyond just belief in Jesus; he devoted his entire political life to deeds aimed at creating a race of people in the pure image of God.

Some claim that Hitler lied when promoting religion, for political reasons (without citing a shred of evidence), but nothing in the historical record indicates this, nor would there appear any reason for him to do so. Even if he lied in Mein Kampf, why would he continue to consider himself a Christian after he held absolute German power? Why spend so much valuable resources to rid Germany of Jews if not from some profound justification? Hate of Jews alone cannot explain it. The hate must stem from some source and the historical record shows that anti-Judaism had long lived in the minds of Christians ever since Paul separated his community of believers from the law and people of Judaism.
Just as revealingly, not only did Hitler present his religious beliefs in his speeches, but his own private notes reveal the influence of the Bible, long before he came into power. In one of his notes, he describes the Bible as the monumental history of mankind and used the old testament race laws as the foundation for his views against the Jews, which later turned into the Nazi Nuremberg race laws [Maser, p.282]

Many Christians have attempted to destroy Hitler's claimed Christianity by pointing out that his actions did not appear Christian-like (whatever that means). Therefore, so the hypothesis goes, no "true" Christian would cause "evil" deeds. But again, the Bible does not define Christianity in terms of deeds regardless of how good or evil they seem. Yet it came through his very deeds that Hitler confessed his work for the Lord:

Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.

-Hitler (Mein Kampf)

Hitler's work of the Lord only agrees with Biblical scripture:

And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

-Colossians 3:17

Hitler not only believed in Jesus (which alone would make him a Chrisitan) but his work against the Jews came straight from Christian reasoning just as had many Christian saints of the past.

In another attempted point, Christians show that Hitler imprisoned priests and nuns, some of them dying in concentration camps; therefore he must have had anti-Christian feelings, so the reasoning goes. But the Nazis imprisoned people of many faiths, including a few Nazis who stood in Hitler's way. But the Nazis condemned these people for their political views against the government, not for their religious beliefs.

Although Hitler may have deluded and blinded himself by belief, he appeared brutally honest in his fanaticism and beliefs. Nowhere do we find him denouncing Jesus; nothing in the record shows him expressing hatred toward Christians for their beliefs; not at anytime does he destroy Christian churches or attempt to eliminate the Christian religion. Even though Hitler had political problems with the hierarchy of the churches, he spent inordinate amount of time attempting to unite the Churches into one German Reich Church and spoke for establishing what he called real Christianity. His reach for uniting Christianity brought conflict within the denominations and created political divisions. It came from this that Hitler sometimes spoke against Christianity as a power structure, but never against Christianity as a belief system. (Note that many prominent Christians, throughout history, had spoken against their own religions, or other competing Christian religions). Although the historical record does show that, along with Jews and gypsies, a number of Christians did die in extermination camps, these death sentences resulted from their political views against Nazism, not because of their religion, faith in God, or because Hitler hated Christians. His religious reasoning for killing people aimed at Jews, not Christians and this included Jews who converted to Christianity.

If imprisoning or killing Christians constituted a condition for determining anti-Christianity, then we would have to consider virtually all governments or leaders of society who called for death sentences against Christians, as anti-Christian as well. Note that the majority of criminals in U.S. prisons, as well as those we execute, live and die as Christians. Does that make our prosecutors anti Christian? Should we consider George W. Bush anti-Christian just because his Texas agenda for the death penalty put many Christian criminals to death? Of course not, and neither can one use this reasoning as an argument against Hitler's Christianity. If, indeed, Hitler imprisoned priests or Christians for religious reasons, then where does this evidence exist? What proclamation or religious belief does Hitler cite to justify this hearsay belief?

Hitler makes his position clearly known about priests violating state concerns when he said:

So long as they concern themselves with their religious problems the State does not concern itself with them. But so soon as they attempt by any means whatsoever-- by letters, Encyclica, or otherwise-- to arrogate to themselves rights which belong to the State alone we shall force them back into their proper spiritual, pastoral activity.

-Adolf Hitler, in a speech delivered in Berlin on the May Day festival, 1937 [Baynes]

Hitler fully realized that his political enemies were making accusations against him and although he didn't have to, he explicitly makes his position known about his feelings for religion:

Amongst the accusations which are directed against Germany in the so called democracies is the charge that the National Socialist State is hostile to religion. In answer to that charge I should like to make before the German people the following solemn declaration:

1. No one in Germany has in the past been persecuted because of his religious views (Einstellung), nor will anyone in the future be so persecuted....

The Churches are the greatest landed proprietors after the State... Further, the Church in the National Socialist State is in many ways favoured in regard to taxation, and for gifts, legacies, &c., it enjoys immunity from taxation.

It is therefore, to put mildly-- effrontery when especially foreign politicians make bold to speak of hostility to religion in the Third Reich....

I would allow myself only one question: what contributions during the same period have France, England, or the United States made through the State from the public funds?

3. The National Socialist State has not closed a church, nor has it prevented the holding of a religious service, nor has it ever exercised any influence upon the form of a religious service. It has not exercised any pressure upon the doctrine nor on the profession of faith of any of the Confessions. In the National Socialist State anyone is free to seek his blessedness after his own fashion....

There are ten thousands and ten thousands of priests of all the Christian Confessions who perform their ecclesiastical duties just as well as or probably better than the political agitators without ever coming into conflict with the laws of the State....

This State has only once intervened in the internal regulation of the Churches, that is when I myself in 1933 endeavoured to unite the weak and divided Protestant Churches of the different States into one great and powerful Evangelical Church of the Reich. That attempt failed through the opposition of the bishops of some States; it was therefore abandoned. For it is in the last resort not our task to defend or even to strengthen the Evangelical Church through violence against its own representatives....

But on one point it is well that there should be no uncertainty: the German priest as servant of God we shall protect, the priest as political enemy of the German State we shall destroy.

-Adolf Hitler, a speech in the Reichstag on 30 Jan. 1939 [Baynes]


Hitler emphasized that he attached the greatest importance to cooperation with the Catholic church and spoke of himself as a Catholic:

I am absolutely convinced of the great power and the deep significance of the Christian religion, and consequently will not permit any other founders of religion (Religionsstifter). Therefore I have turned against Ludendoriff and separated myself from him; therefore I reject Rosenberg's book. That book is written by a Protestant. It is not a party book. It is not written by him as a member of the party. The Protestants can settle matters with him.

My desire is that no confessional conflict arise. I must act correctly to both confessions. I will not tolerate a Kulturkampf.... I stand by my word. I will protect the rights and freedom of the church and will not permit them to be touched. You need have no apprehensions concerning the freedom of the church.

-Hitler [quoted from Helmreich, p.241]

As for schools, it was a matter of utmost importance to the Catholic hierarchy, and agreed to by the Reich Concordat between the Nazis and the Vatican. Hitler went on in this chilling observation:

Secular schools can never be tolerated because such a school has no religious instruction and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith. from our point of view as representatives of the state, we need believing people. A dark cloud threatens from Poland. We have need of soldiers, believing solders. Believing solders are the most valuable ones. They give their all. Therefore we will maintain the confessional schools in order to train believing people through the schools, but this depends upon having truly believing teachers, not by chance Marxists who do not stand fully by their religious faith, as teachers.

-Hitler, [quoted from Helmreich, p.241]

Notice how Hitler spoke of the schools in the way Right Wing Christians do today in their attempt to take control of public and private schools.

Although there did occur secret anti-Church actions carried out (mostly by Bormann and Roesnburg), such as requiring the resignations of the priests from the party, but when Hitler found out about this, Hitler ruled that forced resignations and expulsions of the clergy from the party should stop. Hitler himself ordered his chief associates, Göring and Goebbels to retain their church membership as did he too remain a member until his death.

If you doubt the sincerity of non-Christians to make claims about Hitler's belief in God, or from Hitler himself, then on whose authority could you possibly derive the evidence? I submit that the majority of believing German Christians believed wholeheartedly in Hitler's sincerity toward God. If one cannot take the word from fellow believers, the what does that say about Christian beliefs? Moreover, Catholic and Protestant leaders felt convinced of Hitler's belief. As an example, the Catholic Cardinal Faulhaber of Munich visited Hitler at his mountain retreat at Obersalzburg in November 1936. Faulhaber observed:

Without doubt the chancellor lives in faith in God. He recognizes Christianity as the foundation of Western culture.

-Cardinal Faulhaber [quoted from Helmreich, p.279]

And if you think that the Church hierarchy did not feel convinced of Hitler's belief in God and Christianity, then why oh why would Pope Pius XII in 1939 instruct Cardinal Bertram to send a birthday message to Hitler: "warmest congratulations to the Fuhrer in the name of the bishops and the dioceses in Germany" which was added, "fervent prayers which the Catholics of Germany are sending to heaven on their altars."? These greetings became a tradition and were sent every April 20th.

If you cannot take the word of Hitler's own words in his claim of Christianity, or contemporary Christian believers, or bishops, or cardinals or Popes, then what other Christian authority could you possibly turn to?

The rest of the following text aims to show that, not only did Hitler's actions compare with the actions of the alleged Jesus, but that his deeds appeared similar to God-like actions in the Bible. Indeed Hitler's beliefs and deeds resemble the actions of many acknowledged prominent Christians of the past and present. The comparisons to God and Jesus come from the Bible and the comparison to past Christian deeds, comes from the history of Christians themselves.

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Comparing Hitler to the Biblical God

Except the Lord build the house, they labour in main that build it: except the Lord keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain.

-Psalms 127:1

Hitler had familiarity with this verse and saw God as his aid to his German Reich when he said:

Except the Lord built the house they labour in vain.... The truth of that text was proved if one looks at the house of which the foundations were laid in 1918 and which since then has been in building.... The world will not help, the people must help itself. Its own strength is the source of life. That strength the Almighty has given us to use; that in it and through it we may wage the battle of our life.... The others in the past years have not had the blessing of the Almighty-- of Him Who in the last resort, whatever man may do, holds in His hands the final decision. Lord God, let us never hesitate or play the coward, let us never forget the duty which we have taken upon us.... We are all proud that through God's powerful aid we have become once more true Germans.

-Adolf Hitler, in a speech in March 1933 [Baynes]

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And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness...

-Genesis 1:26

Hitler took this Biblical belief to heart; he held justification for a superior race on the foundation of his belief that man should fit God's image:

A folkish state must therefore begin by raising marriage from the level of a continuous defilement of the race, and give it the consecration of an institution which is called upon to produce images of the Lord and not monstrosities halfway between man and ape.

-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

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Genesis Chapter 3 speaks of the expulsion from paradise and Hitler takes notice of this:

...the fall of man in paradise has always been followed by his expulsion.

-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

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With a belief in the dilution of the races, Hitler prophesied that if no one did anything about the purification of the races, the image of God would decrease:

But if out of smugness, or even cowardice, this battle is not fought to its end, then take a look at the peoples five hundred years from now. I think you will find but few images of God, unless you want to profane the Almighty.

-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

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Hitler's Biblical beliefs shows clearly where he got the notion for offensive action:

... the world has no reason for fighting in our defense, and as a matter of principle God does not make cowardly nations free...

-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

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Of course we well know that Hitler wanted to get rid of the Jews but how many Christians realize that his main justification aimed to protect the image of the Lord?

Certainly we don't have to discuss these matters with the Jews, the most modern inventors of this cultural perfume. Their whole existence is an embodied protest against the aesthetics of the Lord's image.

-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

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And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle.

And Pharaoh rose up in the night, he, and all his servants, and all the Egyptians; and there was a great cry in Egypt; for there was not a house where there was not one dead.

-Exodus 12:29-30

Although no archeological evidence exists for the Biblical slaughter of first-borns, Hitler actions compare with the Lord's atrocities reported in the Bible. Through eugenics, Hitler killed tens of thousands of children whom he felt did not deserve to live. Not only did first-borns get exterminated, but mid and later-borns as well.

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The LORD is a man of war. . .

-Exodus 15:3

Hitler, also a man of war, caused World War II by himself.

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And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain.

-Deuteronomy 2:34

Hitler took cities as well as countries. Although he did not destroy all the people of every city, his actions resulted in death to many men, women and children.

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Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

-I Samuel 15:3

Hitler attempted to utterly destroy the Jews and all that they had and had millions of men, women, and infants executed. As for animals, Hitler had far more compassion than the Biblical God; he felt kindness for animals.

(Note: In no sense do I mean that Hitler fulfilled any prophesy, mind you, but rather that Hitler's actions remained consistent with the actions of the alleged God described in the Bible.)

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Let burning coals fall upon them: let them be cast into the fire; into deep pits, that they rise not up again.

-Psalm 140:10

Through Hitler's orders, millions of people (them) got burned in incinerators and cast into pits.

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I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

-Isaiah 45:7

Hitler created peace when it suited him and created death and destruction when it fit his needs, which by Christian standards means "evil." Hitler did all these things in similar God-like actions reported in the Bible.

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Proclaim ye this among the Gentiles; Prepare war, wake up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near; let them come up: Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong.

-Joel 3:9-10

Hitler appealed to the German populace, building up their military might, and prepared them them for war:

Their sword will become our plow, and from the tears of war the daily bread of future generations will grow.

-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

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Nuremberg Race Laws

It should also enlighten one to realize that the Nuremberg Race Laws of 1935, signed by Hitler, and according to Julius Streicher, got based on the Old Testament laws forbidding marriages between Jews and non-Jews.

These race laws forbade marriages between Jews and subjects of the state of Germany and that Marriages between Jews and Germans became invalid. Even extramarital intercourse between Jews and German citizens, or related blood got deemed illegal. These laws began the elimination of Jews from Germany which later escalated into the holocaust.

During the trials against Nazi war criminals, Julius Streicher admitted that he influenced the racial laws and said the following:

I have written such articles again and again; and in my articles I have repeatedly emphasized the fact that the Jews should serve as an example to every race, for they created the racial law for themselves-- the law of Moses, which says, 'If you come into a foreign land you shall not take unto yourself foreign women.' And that, Gentlemen, is of tremendous importance in judging the Nuremberg Laws.. These laws of the Jews were taken as a model for these laws. When after centuries, the Jewish lawgiver Ezra demonstrated that notwithstanding many Jews had married non-Jewish women, these marriages were dissolved. That was the beginning of Jewry which, because it introduced these racial laws, has survived throughout the centuries, while all other races and civilizations have perished.

-Trial of The Major War Criminals Before the International Military Tribunal, Nuremberg, 1945, Vol. 12)
If anyone doubts the Biblical laws against marriage, one need only read: Genesis 28:1, 6; Deuteronomy 7:1-3; Leviticus 20: 2, 26; Ezra 9:1-2, 12; Nehemiah 13: 23-30.

A few of the Ezra verses that Streicher refers to, read as follows:

Now when these things were done, the princes came to me, saying, The people of Israel, and the priests, and the Levites, have not separated themselves from the people of the lands, doing according to their abominations, even the Cannaanites, the Hitites, the Perizzites, the Jebusites, the Ammonites, the Moabites, the Egyptians, and the Amorites.
For they have taken of their daughters for themselves, and for their sons: so that the holy seed have mingled themselves with the people of those lands: yea, the hand of the princes and rulers hath been chief in this trespass. (Ezra 9:1,:2)

And now, O our God, what shall we say after this? for we have forsaken they commandments. Which thou hast commanded by thy servants the prophets, saying, The land, unto which ye go to possess it, is an unclean land with the filthiness of the people of the lands with their abominations, which have filled it from one end to another with their uncleanness. Now therefore give not your daughters unto their sons, neither take their daughters unto your sons, nor seek their peace or their wealth for ever: that ye may be strong, and eat the good of the land, and leave it for an inheritance to your children for ever. (Ezra 9:10-12)

We know that the Bible influenced Hitler's views on race laws because Hitler says so in his own private notes. In one of these notes, Hitler included his religious views of race laws under the outline of The Bible-- Monumental History of Mankind. (see the transcript by clicking here).

Given this frightening information, it should come to no surprise why Christians and even Jews, for fear of condemning their own religion, had not mentioned this embarrassing revelation in their defense against Nazism."

"No man ever believes that the Bible means what it says; he is always convinced that it says what he means."

CON'T



To: Greg or e who wrote (17391)5/7/2004 3:01:42 AM
From: Solon  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 28931
 
"I did not intend that as a personal insult or to insinuate that you in any way approve of what Hitler did"

I don't believe you. I wasn't born yesterday.

I admit it is difficult to discuss concepts of Natural Law which has been approached by many people from myriad directions. Nor is it always possible to know what any one person truly believed or felt on related issues. Therefore, let me simplify matters for you: I will set down a basic creed to highlight some of my personal principles. This will gainsay ambiguity and argue against your searching the internet for meaningless nit-picking around extraneous and irrelevant points of contention.

1). The principle of survival requires no logical justification. It is self-evident that one may strive to survive and that one ought to as a matter of self interest.

2). Man is a rational creature; and rational creatures survive by rational means. Therefore, the rational creates a moral basis.

3). Survival is bound with security of person and security of property (food, etc.). Therefore, safety is a Natural right...as is protection of property.

4). It is self-evident that the desire for happiness is innate in human nature.

5). Reason shows us that the natural goal of happiness requires freedom of choice.

Therefore, people ought to live together in such a way that these rights are supported by the laws of society. This is basically what the Constitution says. Notice I did not mention "Creator". There was no need. Rational living (moral conduct) exists independently of any and all fantasies and illusions.

All morality is based on reason. Sometimes the reasoning is sound; and sometimes it is adulterated by charlatans and priests. What is important is that I did NOT use "Creator" in this little replication of the Declaration. What does "Creator" add? NOTHING!

When did "Creator" ever guarantee a Constitution? When did "Creator" ever run down a thief or a killer? When did "Creator" ever help the poor, the sick, the afflicted? When did "Creator" ever bind a wound, or hold back the blood, or make a peace? When did Creator swing a judge's gavel or sit on a jury bench to reason out justice? The answer is: NEVER!

Morality is relative. It is created by man. It is created by mystics or by men of sound mind. It is a reasoned morality that acknowledges the reality of human existence; or it is a mystical morality which imposes a fantasy on both the willing and the unwilling. We spent centuries believing in mysticism (even Luther believed in demons). Now it is time to step away from demon based medicine; and it is also time to step away from demon-based morality. We no longer splash blood on nose, toe, and ear to cure disease...or to appease a pompous and insecure God projection. Nor ought we to create moral code based on primitive superstitions. The tribal morality of primitive people is hardly condign to modern man. It is 2004. The mystic moochers must go.

Morality has always been relative--it cannot be otherwise. It must be decided from country to country, from place to place, and from individual to individual. Everywhere it must be determined whether human conduct will answer to the rational or to the mystical.

Reason has common ground where all my meet. But the unicorns of mysticism may have one horn or a million tails. To the superstitious it is all the same...