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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: jttmab who wrote (131976)	5/7/2004 8:47:19 AM
From: Neocon	Respond to of 281500

"Jewish" is both a religious and an ethnic category. Many Jews who emigrated to the United States were not observant, but rather socialists, Zionists, Bundists, or merely secular. But they still identified with the historical Jewish community. Or do you think that Zionists were not Jewish because most of them, in the early years, were atheists or agnostics?

To: jttmab who wrote (131976)	5/7/2004 8:48:54 AM
From: greenspirit	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

You're mincing sophistry. My larger point still remains valid despite your semantic condemnation. That being, far more people than the Anglo-Celtic peoples of the British Isles made America great.

To: jttmab who wrote (131976)	5/7/2004 8:50:21 AM
From: Neocon	Respond to of 281500

Do you think that the United States would have flourished if there were not a great deal of economic opportunity, without respect of birth, or if there were no, or more curtailed, civil liberties? I would be interested in a demonstration that the relative freedom of the States had nothing to do with its prosperity. It is certainly counter intuitive.

To: jttmab who wrote (131976)	5/7/2004 8:54:49 AM
From: Neocon	Respond to of 281500

Actually, there is a case to be made for self- selection of the "best and brightest", at least from among the middle and lower classes. After all, it took some moxy to emigrate. You may have heard that those Americans of West Indian descent do better in American society than those descended from American slaves. Since all blacks in this hemisphere began as slaves, one theory is that those West Indians with the determination and brains to get here and stay were the cream of the crop, as it were, and instilled more discipline in their descendants to succeed.

To: jttmab who wrote (131976)	5/7/2004 2:18:36 PM
From: Ilaine	Respond to of 281500

Slaves were, in fact, selected and bred. There were certain breeds that were more desireable and commanded higher prices, Mandinka and Yallof come to mind. These are 19th century terms, I am sure Mandinka = Mandingo. The masters decided which ones could breed. You can see some of the aftermath of this in the South. Extremely black slaves with thick lips and flat noses were made to work in the fields, lighter blacks with thin lips and straight noses were put into trades like working with iron, and serving in the household. Even today, lighter blacks with thin lips and straight noses look down on extremely dark blacks with thick lips and flat noses. I have no idea whether the selection of slaves was effective or based on false ideas, but reason suggests that whatever trait was being selected for was actually there, be it intelligence, docility, or what.