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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (132091)	5/7/2004 4:51:57 PM
From: Rascal	Respond to of 281500

And unfortunately, that means we're going to have to fight them.. and kill them.. And more unfortunately, many innocents are going to caught in the middle of this great struggle. Hawk, stop with th stereotypes and labels. You can replace Islamo/Fascism with: Japanese German, Italian, Dutch, British, Russian, Spanish Vietnamese, Korean, or Native American. There is no logic in killing someone because his ideology is contrary.Wait 20 yeas and they will be on our side. This power charged macho strategy is very inefficient and short term. Hierarchy is as dead as monarchy replacing itself with a technologically supported geodesic chain of command. Things are going to be much better from now on. The lesson of American and its democracy is being distilled, defined and distributed world wide. And nobody has to swear an oath or take a note. Rascal @MajorMileStone.com

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (132091)	5/7/2004 5:03:18 PM
From: Maurice Winn	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

Hawk, I recently renewed my membership of the Rationalist association nzarh.org.nz You've put your finger on the issue here: <The Islamo-Fascism that we are seeing taking seed amongst the youth of the Middle East, and seeking to violently spread its hatred and intolerance throughout the region, should be scaring the pants off of every peace-loving person on this planet... It's just as racist and supremist as any ideology we've heretofore seen in our history. In this case, it's not racial supremacy, but religious. It's Jihad against all non-Islamic beliefs, to either be destroyed or suppressed by these fanatical extremists. And we need to finally figure out, as a nation and a world, that the "war on terror" is really a war upon such fanatical and intolerant beliefs...> It's not a racist issue, as Islamic people are spread from Nigeria to Turkey and Iran and up into Russia and into western China, through India and down into Indonesia with adherents all over the place. It's an ideological issue. It's back to the millennia-old rule of the priesthood by superstition, brutality and fear, and all the horrors that entails. As John Walker Lindh, Cassius Clay, Cat Stevens and untold others show, it's not a simple proposition to say that Islam is a losing wicket. It is obviously not losing. A lot of people like what they think they see in the ideology. A lot of people thought Hitler and the Nazi ideas were pretty cool too. Jim Jones had his followers too. Communism was very fashionable for a long time and still is, in diluted socialist forms. The socialist battle is being fought in the USA and 'free' world and freedom is losing. Taxes are at all time record highs around the world, with nanny-state redistributive smothering regulations endemic. In a way, I might even prefer Islam if I thought about it and had to choose one of the other for ever and ever amen. I'm with you, this is a battle against benighted superstition. Islamic Jihad is a violent horror. There is a ring of fire around Islam, with greater lethality than the tectonic ring of fire around the Pacific Rim. I don't wish to live in dhimmitude, enslaved to some crazy priest ranting incantations to the moon and beheading anyone he fancies. Issuing fatwahs and cruelty on a daily basis. However, there's no need to exacerbate the situation. Rather than invading Iran, Pakistan, Indonesia and so on, to get rid of the mullahs and mania, it's better to defend the homeland and keep Islam in its own zone. But, they can get hold of nukes since Pakistan has them. Now there's a dilemma. The USSR worried about MADness. It's not so certain that people desiring martyrdom would be as restrained in their use of nukes. They might figure that if they kill a million infidels, it's worth it to lose 100 million Moslems to Allah. I suspect not - all hat and no cattle is what I think; they are just people when push comes to shove. End of history indeed! Who said that? Mqurice PS The battle against Christian oppression of We the Sheeple in New Zealand is largely won. There are a few rear-guard problems like prayers to start council meetings, absurd shop-trading regulations over Easter, and other silliness, but there isn't widespread religious repression. It's now at annoying levels. Islam is a different story. We are going to learn once again that the price of freedom is eternal vigilance, and people have gone to sleep on the job.