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Politics : PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Kevin Rose who wrote (573598)	5/10/2004 1:39:30 PM
From: Johannes Pilch	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 769670

Goodness. You are so locked into your mindset that you cannot really even see, can you? I see perfectly. I see that you are an utter numbskull. You claim a difference between the Christian slaughter of Muslims and Jews and the Muslim slaughter at WTC: "He slaughtered them in the areas where they ought not have been". It is not just the WTC slaughter. It is muslims slaughters across the entire world. No one has done anything like this, even with consideration of the Crusades. You claim that the Jews should not have been in Jerusalem? Nope, and that you would even ask such a thing demonstrates that you refuse to understand the position of your opponent, mischaracterizing it like a pure dishonest numbskull. Or are they also 'attached innocents' who were in the wrong place at the wrong time? Well obviously they were attached, since they were directly at the site of hostility. But not all were categorically innocent. These Jews died collaterally, as a result of anti-Semitic belief combined with the passions of war. Moreover, many of the Jews actually supported the muslims against the Crusaders because they had business relationships with them that they did not wish disturbed. As a result, they became arguable targets for assault. Urban's motive was not to harm them, but to repell the arabs who had assaulted and taken Christian land. The Jews who died there were incidental and firmly attached to the circumstances. I don't condone their deaths, but I certainly think a much greater moral foundation exists for them than exists for the wholesale islamic barbarity that we see being unleashed on unattched innocents across the entire world - you friggin' intellectual twit. That's got to be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. It is dumb because you are corrupting my position as you tend to corrupt all positions that you, in your supreme ignorance, reject. You are clearly ignorant of this issue, having imbibed and become wasted on so much general leftist trash you haven't bothered with learning the details. The 1095 A.D. "Council of Clermont sermon by Urban II, which you 've so boorishly corrupted here, which sermon also called for the initial Crusade, contains not a single instruction to kill Jews. You quoted a from goofy "liberation theology" web site that underscored Catholic corruption for its own end. To be sure, many Catholics were corrupt. But that can be said of anyone and is not at issue here. The truth is that when Urban preached his Crusade, many undisciplined, peasant fanatics went ahead of his troops, killing Jews to loot their goods. The Bishops constantly preached against it, many were attacked because of it. The Bishop of Spier is well knowned for having saved many Jews at the time. At Warms and Mainz the Bishops were routed because they were fighting to protect the Jews. In fact this war against killing Jews was happening in very many towns throughout the empire. It was a substantial challenge to those who would take occassion of Urban's command to redefine the mission. No such thing ever occurs in islam. The muslims just murder at will and the entire muslim world stands essentially in silence. As for the July 13 Raymond IV massacre you've mentioned by implication, Urban II didn't even have a clue about it. So you really ought not blame him as you ae doing. He died, I think it was on the 29th, before getting any news of the Jerusalem slaughter. I am not defending the man. There is more than enough corruption of character in him. But what you are doing is just disgusting. You are ascribing to him evil that just is not his. War is messy. Not everything that goes on in it can be categorically blamed on the will of the leaders. But where islam is concerned, the leaders themselves are using islam to call for the literal murder of people who are not even attached to the issues, and muslims across the entire world are essentially silent. There just is no intramuslim struggle being fought for the defense of the slaughtered innocent. For that matter, the Muslims had a better claim at the time to the Holy Lands than the Christians. They took in the Jews when they were being repressed and slaughtered by the Christians in Europe. This is so friggin' stupid I am about to throw right up. The defense of Jews here does not give muslims claim to anything and it certainly does not give them the right to destroy Christians. Muslims and Jews at this time were involved in trade. So it is to be expected that when the Crusaders arrived, the some muslims would rely upon the extant alliance here. Even so, it is irrelevant. The point of relevance here is that Urban II had a valid concern abotu Christians being slaughtered by muslims and he preached a Crusade against it. Whether you agree with him or not, the fact is, his actions have infinitely more moral standing than what islam does. Getting back to your original attempts here, you are flatly wrong to claim the Catholics are like the muslims. They never have been, at least not without challenge. Even in their worst days they never spread worldwide murder, without challenge, upon innocent unattached people as we see in islam. You are worse than stupid, you are dangerous. And you are a numbskull. Your kind of 'thinking' is what gets millions of innocent people killed. At least I am thinking, you friggin' numbskull. The real sadness is that you think you are intelligent, yet I have a 6 year old with a better sense of morality than you. Your 6 year old is quite likely a numbskull too. You and Cyberken are blood brothers. And you are a leftist numbskull. Why not just come out and say it: Exterminate all the brutes. All I want is to have nothing to do with muslim crap. But they have dragged me into this thing by blowing me up and trying to take my life and the lives of my family. I never did anything against them - nothing. But now they want to murder us. No other religion on earth is doing this - only islam.