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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Neocon who wrote (132716)	5/12/2004 1:54:43 PM
From: Lou Weed	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

<<Innocent Iraqis are not being killed, except in cases of collateral damage. In fact, we went to a lot of trouble to avoid civilian casualties in the latest confrontation. Certainly, we have been very conservative even with the lives of men under arms, allowing them to flee before attacks in the initial phase of the war.>> We're the kinder, gentler killing machine.......

To: Neocon who wrote (132716)	5/13/2004 12:23:52 PM
From: cnyndwllr	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

Neocon, I hardly know where to start. The point of my post wasn't that I agreed with all the over-the-top rhetoric; it was that the same shrill, panicky and fear driven rationale that is used to paint the many Muslims with the acts of the few can be used against "Christian America." Did you understand that? Your "defense" of our position, however, seems to be that we're not as bad as they are. You cite the Saddam regime's "butchery" and point out that we treat their "sacred sites with respect." You say that you "cannot fathom the hostility shown to the idea of spreading democracy." What are you talking about? The point isn't that we treat their sacred sites with respect; the point is that they're THEIR sacred sites and they should be the ones to treat them with respect. The point isn't that we get to judge Saddam's butchery; the point is that they should have been the ones to say "enough" and suicide-bomb or RPG Saddam if he was the butcher we say he was. The point isn't whether I like or dislike the concept of another nation becoming democratic; the point is whether the PEOPLE OF THAT NATION like the idea enough to fight and die for it. These are distinctions that are seemingly overlooked by those who not only have a sense that they know what's best for others; they also feel that they somehow have the (moral, god given?) right to IMPOSE their will on others through the use of deadly force. I don't suppose the neocons will ever understand the ethical constraints that should have stopped them from using our military force for this purpose. I know, however, that they will one day learn a simple reality; it can't be done and the attempt will, and is, making us weaker, not stronger.