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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (133069)	5/14/2004 9:06:43 PM
From: quehubo	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

Okay Iraq today exporting with few interruptions at maximum capacity and oil is $41. Iraq without stability and oil is worth? Lets say $60 and economies start feeling the pinch. Before long the Indians and Chinese along with the West will be willing to put hundreds of thousands of feet on the ground to keep the oil flowing . BTW Saddam was disarmed from at least one weapaon, his ability to buy the UN with oil and control of the spigot that would be much more powerful today and even more so in the near future.

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (133069)	5/15/2004 7:27:33 PM
From: cnyndwllr	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Well, if we leave, our money will leave with us, quite likely.. And that interim government will be left to their own devices and oil revenues. But at least it will be THEIR CHOICE, not ours. I think that's a success.. And even if they wish us to leave, we'll be able to absolve ourselves of the blame for what might occur afterward. Well I'd say that was a very low level threshold view of "success." If you'd called that a six short months ago you'd have been accusing YOURSELF of pessimism or worse. As far as "absolv[ing] ourselves of the blame for what migh occure afterward," do you mean that WE'LL be able to rationalize it if we try real hard, or do you mean that the world and ultimately history will absolve us of blame? Many good-intentioned people (and remember I'm not saying that the moving forces behind this misadventure had pure motives) can do great harm through arrogance, ignorance and incompetence. History sometimes has a way of recording the results of their actions. It took us 7 years to create a West Germany government, but you think because we haven't created democracy in Iraq within 12 months, we've failed... It took us how long in Vietnam? Just saying that we "created" a West German government doesn't mean that we created anything. It only means that we had a role in it. The culture, the ideals, and the willingness to fight were there already or we wouldn't have "created" anything. I don't think you'll get too far comparing post WW11 German society and culture with current day Iraqi culture and society so why go there? So yes, if saying that the glass is half empty and we're spilling more of it when the Administration is saying it's overflowing is being negative, well then color me negative. In the final analysis it's like rooting for your favorite losing football team when it's playing the best team in the league, root all you want but be sure not to bet too much on the outcome.