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Politics : Just the Facts, Ma'am: A Compendium of Liberal Fiction -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: mph who wrote (7814)	5/18/2004 10:37:21 AM
From: Selectric II	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 90947

Because to people like Orca, we're the bad guys, and Saddam was the innocent victim of our aggression. We ought to re-install and re-arm him, pay him reparations, and flood him with Hallmark cards and flowers. While we're at it, we should hand Kuwait over to him as a sign of our sincerity.

To: mph who wrote (7814)	5/18/2004 11:58:02 AM
From: Sully-	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 90947

For many on the left it is all about regaining the White House by any means necessary. That includes allowing our troops to be placed at greater risk while liberal politicians, the liberal media & lunatic liberals act in the most treacherous manner. There are no lies that won't be told, no distortions that won't be used, untold acts of perfidy, nor any opportunity to publicly slander America. It's all about regaining the office of the President by any means necessary, no matter the harm, the risk of inciting more terrorist attacks, etc., as long as it hurts the Bush Admin & helps the lunatic left. This is what far too many on the left are all about no matter how much they deny this reality.

To: mph who wrote (7814)	5/18/2004 1:39:23 PM
From: Orcastraiter	Respond to of 90947

It's not important to minimize anything. I'm trying to get it right with respect to all casualties whether it was Saddam doing the killing or if it was the US. You posted a link that said that Saddam had killed 200,000 people. There was no mention of the Marsh people in that link. I think that often the numbers that Saddam killed are inflated here in order to justify the pre-emptive war. And some want to deny that the US aided both sides in the Iraq Iran war to maximize casualties on both sides. My position on the war in Iraq was the same as the president's father and Colin Powell. It's clear that we did not deliver an all out effort in Afghanistan...and we should have. We let local tribesman corner bin Laden...then during a cease fire...bin Laden escaped over the mountains to Pakistan. Myself and many others including many in the Military disagreed with that tactic. We went into Afghanistan in a half assed manner and we did not accomplish the goals we needed to accomplish. Same can be said about Iraq. After the initial assault on Iraq and the run to Baghdad, we did not have the troop strength to keep the peace. Our own studies before the war indicated that 200,000 to 300,000 troops and or peacekeepers would be necessary. Instead a period of lawlessness broke out with looting and other crimes being committed. This set a tone from which the insurgents were able to create even more havoc for our troops. When it seemed that terrorists or insurgents were getting the upper hand, Rumsfeld ordered increased interrogation procedures ala Gitmo. We all know how that worked out. None of this would have happened if we would have followed the studied advice of folks like Bush I, Powell, Zinni Scowcroft and many of our allies. If war was needed in Iraq it should have been done as part of a large UN coalition. There was no urgency to go to war. The WMD and the Nukes were all overblown. The only real evidence that was given to Powell to present at the UN turned out to be bogus. Bad information from Chalabi's man "curveball". My position is that we failed to give adequate support to the war against Al Qaeda in Afghanistan, while we diverted efforts to Iraq. Then Rumsfeld underestimated the need for troops and money there too. And this administration said that oil revenues would pay for the war. Yeah they changed their tune, but this kind of thinking underlies the approach to the middle east. This administration has made a ton of mistakes. Yet they admit to none. So many opportunities blown, and now it all comes down to a crap shoot on June 30th. We need new leadership in this country. ORca

To: mph who wrote (7814)	5/18/2004 1:50:56 PM
From: MrLucky	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 90947

I have previously nominated Orchastraiter for Sec. of Defense. He hasn't indicated if he will accept. I am ready to send the nomination e-mail to Kerry. It may be that he hasn't come up with a plan yet that will solve all those mistakes that he accuses the GWB people of making. Like a "half-a$$ed" effort in Afghanistan. Guess the elimination of the Taliban government and many Al Qaeda terrorists and leaders plus giving women the right to education etc. etc. only qualifies as "half-a$$ed. He conveniently forgets that GWB said in the beginning of the anti-terrorist action that this would takes years to accomplish.