SI
SI
discoversearch

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor.  We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community.  If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.
Politics : Idea Of The Day -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: IQBAL LATIF who wrote (46281)5/24/2004 3:45:27 AM
From: IQBAL LATIF  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 50167
 
Naturally someone who thinks Iraq was a mistake would find me on the other side of the argument.Censorship is about imposing views; the design of a person tyranny can not be more clearly expressed than the following. A person who is a coward and in permanent oblivion has the guts to sit in a glass house to tell me,.............

< more than willing to go back into SI oblivion if you are willing to be candid and balanced in your posts. If not, I will continue to correct the more glaring inaccuracies and biases that you post - as and when time permits. There is a vast difference between posting good faith opinions that honest people may have differing views as opposed to half truths and outright lies.>

no oblivion is worst than one which is self imposed, it is detestable to see such oblivion self imposed due to constraints that are based on fiscal or self protection but oblivion is something that makes people very bitter.. he is very cross and very bitter a liberal but very rigid when it comes to my freedom of expression..


I doubt anyone can be more candid than me, the whole issue that I don’t express that ‘Osama is very popular’ seems to me a very foolish issue, we all know that on this thread I express the changes happening as a result of Bush doctrine in my region, on every page of this thread from Woman rights to adoption of ‘charter of change’ by the Arabs and from stoppage of proliferation of Iraq to Libyan circumcision or war against Alqaeda I talk of region that is changing, Talebinisation that could have destroyed entire nations have been curbed, is this half truth, I don’t bring and I don’t speculate, those who do that do not release that playing games with search of nukes in enemy territory can lead to a nuclear war and lead to nukes being used, if this is the bird brained approach and this was the whole argument that we should have the plan as if there are few nukes scattered in silos than I can imagine what is the level of strategic depth. Such a lie that Hershey disperses and includes imaginatively Israel; US and India into it does not take into account a few nukes in absolute desperation leaking out and being used.

High powered articles are one thing and articles based on nonsense are something else; my tormentors are not ready to accept ‘half truths’ on a single site which is not advertised and is hidden but Hersh high handedness and his own non sense in the Post and others are considered as plausible scenarios, it is this dichotomy I fail to understand from cowards who can only find faults in a brave man like me who has always taken positions and have a reference to be judged with. Every playing field has to be leveled, the wrestle with me with one hand tied, let me see what has been their views in last 8 years? I don’t have that luxury rather this whole thing erupted due to someone calling him a coward.

Where he speculates about India and keep talking about Indian army ‘that look at it how nice it has never been in politics,’ rarely realizing that when partition happened in 1947, Pakistan ended up with 36 percent of the soldiers of Indian Union Army since proportion of Muslim soldiers in Indian Union Army was twice than their population, from day one we were hampered with martial races combined with Islamic militant software and the whole ungovernable Northern Areas, all this together made an explosive mix, Pakistan had impediments of ideology, we cannot compare with Indian malleable Hinduism, with our inhospitable ideological mish mash, in half of our country it was guns first and talk later, to overlook the fact that minority Muslims ruled over North India as dictators under the garb of Moguls mostly need up within the confines of country that had huge fault lines, ex dictators abound, arms abound, ideological underpinning based on Jihad and it was all set to blow.

From 1947 from 4 percent of Indian Union GDP we grew to 25 percent with all our faults that I always highlight, I see post 911 that we made that famous u-turn, our entire schooling system were being high jacked by Talebins my Aug 28th 2001 article refers to those changes, just before 911 I was lamenting <The war of ideas where Islamic clergy, for its own limited interests, has tried to introduce elements of bigotry and fanaticism in mainstream Islamic thought is not new to Muslim societies. It has made them weak and backward and if it continues in its most dangerous form, such a schism will fragment the country whose only reason to exist as a nation is theological unity of belief. Today, our Darul-Ulooms are a breeding ground for sectarian terminators. Unless our Darul-Ulooms become and are redesigned on the pattern of House of Wisdom, of Baghdad and, instead of producing human terminators, we produce men of letters who may recognize how to respect life, our prospect as a nation is bleak.> iranian.com
He has referred to Ayaz Amer the reason that we have free press he overlooks, no other Islamic country have that, than he talked about Shariff, this is a fight that is going on, I made a available the editorial that was clear, faults of Mush and his benevolent tyranny is not that I refer too, for me my ability to have the change that may lead to a prosperous country makes a lot of sense to me, unlike Palestinian and foolish Saddam we averted a debacle, that what I refer, in my opinion we did well otherwise we had another hotspot to deal with, insurgency in Kashmir has stopped insurgency in Pakistan has halted these are the benefits of global war on terror that isled by Bush. It is easy to mark me nod hold me responsible for all evil of earth but a thread like mine has no impact, I don’t publish them on SI at large one can ignore my half truths and keep on with his life but the issue was that someone called him what he is a coward by heart but likes to be a lion but sheep’s can only be wolves in the garb at best and they end up staying at the bottom of the pits refer to my story of 1001 nights..



I will be more than happy to have him here every day than to change my views. To tell others how they should research their posts, I don’t make any research, I don’t sit and phrase and rephrase, my language is language from my heart and mind therefore due to my limitations and very personnel inclinations on issues in life I don’t even go and post on any other thread, my very ability to write and go back years prove that I was honest what I wrote that is my strength, my life is an open secret theirs we don’t even know who they are, it all started when he was told what coward he is and does not need any reply,



To: IQBAL LATIF who wrote (46281)5/24/2004 10:22:13 AM
From: malibuca  Respond to of 50167
 
We see yet, another of the one-sided, self-serving, sugar-coated posts from the host of this thread regarding the rejection of extremism by students in Pakistan.

Now here is the real story and it demonstrates the crux of the problem.

Madrasas the religious schools that educate many of Pakistan's children has been a hot-bed for preaching and inculcating the most extreme forms of Islamic militancy. This has been the case especially in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.

Musharraf recognized this problem and pledged to reform this festering problem over two years ago. This report from an international think tank, International Crisis Group details the dismal job that has been done to date.

The sections in "bold" are areas that I have emphasized.

Unfulfilled Promises: Pakistan's Failure to Tackle Extremism

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY AND RECOMMENDATIONS

It has been more than two years since President and Chief of Army Staff Pervez Musharraf pledged to reform Pakistani society by reversing the trend of Islamist extremism. In a televised speech, he promised a series of measures to combat extremism. One of the key issues was to bring all madrasas the religious schools that educate many Pakistani children into the mainstream and to increase scrutiny of them by controlling funding and curriculum.

President Musharraf's call for an end to the promotion of an ideology of jihad was welcomed around the world. Two years on, however, the failure to deliver to any substantial degree on pledges to reform the madrasas and contain the growth of jihadi networks means that religious extremism in Pakistan continues to pose a threat to domestic, regional and international security.

Declaring that no institutions would be above the law, the government said it would:

register all madrasas so that it had a clear idea of which groups were running which schools;
regulate the curriculum so that all madrasas would adopt a government curriculum by the end of 2002;
stop the use of madrasas and mosques as centres for the spread of politically and religious inflammatory statements and publications; and
establish model madrasas that would provide modern, useful education and not promote extremism.

New rules were to be outlined in a presidential ordinance. No individual, organisation or party will be allowed to break the law of the land, Musharraf declared.

However, to date no such regulation has been promulgated. Most madrasas remain unregistered. No national syllabus has been developed. No rules on funding of madrasas have been adopted. The government has repeated the rhetoric of mainstreaming madrasa education on many occasions but has pledged that it will not interfere in the affairs of those schools. While three model madrasas have been set up and have enrolled around 300 students, as many as 1.5 million students attend unregulated madrasas.

President Musharraf had promised to crack down on terrorism and end the jihadi culture in Pakistan. He declared that no organisation would be allowed to indulge in terrorism in India-administered Kashmir. While several Pakistani groups were banned, their leaders were not prosecuted under the Anti-Terrorism Act. One extremist leader was allowed to run for parliament and indeed won a seat though more than twenty charges of violent crimes were pending against him. Many secular politicians were disqualified for much less, including not having a higher education. Banned groups were allowed to continue working under new identities with the same leadership. Many, though banned a second time in November 2003, continue to function unhindered and are likely to resurface under new names again.

The government has done very little to implement tougher controls on financing of either madrasas or extremist groups despite obligations under UN Security Council Resolution 1373. It has failed to pass the necessary laws, even removing the issue of terrorism funding from draft regulations on money laundering on the misleading claim that it was already covered under an earlier law on terrorism.

Pakistan's laws on terrorism and extremist groups remain muddled and opaque. While the government claims to be tackling terrorism, it has taken almost no steps towards restricting the extremism that permeates parts of the society. Even al Qaeda was not officially banned until March 2003.

Musharraf's failure owes less to the difficulty of implementing reforms than to the military government's own unwillingness. Indeed, he is following the pattern of the country's previous military rulers in co-opting religious extremists to support his government's agenda and to neutralise his secular political opposition. Far from combating extremism, the military government has promoted it through its electoral policies and its failure to implement effective reform. Whatever measures have so far been taken against extremism have been largely cosmetic, to ease international pressure.

Government inaction has resulted in a resurgence of domestic extremism, including sectarian violence. The failure to penetrate and crack down on terrorist networks is evident in two assassination attempts against President Musharraf himself in December 2003. The jihads in Kashmir and Afghanistan, which in different degrees owe much to support from within Pakistan, remain threats to regional peace. Reliant even more than in the past on the religious right for regime survival after the passage of the Seventeenth Constitutional Amendment with the MMA's support, Musharraf remains unlikely to take the decisive actions against domestic jihadis and jihadi madrasas he pledged in January 2002 and has reiterated repeatedly. These unfulfilled promises could well prove his undoing.


crisisweb.org



To: IQBAL LATIF who wrote (46281)5/24/2004 1:25:00 PM
From: malibuca  Respond to of 50167
 
For more information about madrasas - variations include madrassas and madrassah, this article provides information on one of the more militant ones.

In fairness, it should be noted that madrassas are found in many Muslim nations and most provide a valuable social service in that they offer education to children who otherwise would not be able to afford it. They are also found in nations where there is a sizable Muslim population. Most do not teach the militant Islam that one sees in Pakistan.

Pakistan has during the past decades tacitly encouraged these madrassas that foster hatred of the US and the West. But even in Pakistan, many madrassas do not advocate militant Islam. There are tens of thousands of these madrassas in Pakistan.

Nurturing Young Islamic Hearts and Hatreds

By Rick Bragg

Peshawar, Pakistan -- A thousand years ago, in the days of the camel caravans, storytellers gathered here in the tea shops and brought the outside world and all its thoughts and ideas to the bazaar. As the vendors hawked silk, spice and rich tapestries and traders herded beasts through streets thick with smoke from cooking fires, travelers from distant lands and differing religions told stories about moguls, magic, wit and wisdom. In time, the bazaar came to be known as Qissa Khwani - the Bazaar of the Storytellers.

Now, the streets are still choked with donkey carts, and meat still sizzles on open pits, but the vendors are poor men selling simple things. Blaring car horns drown out all other sound, just as the teachers and students in the Islamic seminaries that surround this bazaar have drowned out all conflicting ideas, all unacceptable thoughts.

The storytellers no longer come. There is just one story now, at least one acceptable story. It is the one taught in the seminaries, called madrassas, that have become incubators in Pakistan for the holy warriors who say they will die to defend Islam and their hero, Osama bin Laden, from the infidels. In many of the 7,500 madrassas in Pakistan, inside a student body of 750,000 to a million, students learn to recite and obey Islamic law, and to distrust and even hate the United States.

"Jihad," shouted a little boy, from a high window in a madrassa just steps from the Khwani Bazaar. He grinned and waved as foreign journalists snapped his photograph, but, on the streets below, older students had massed for demonstrations that would end in clouds of tear gas and smoke from burning tires, as young men jumped through fire to prove their faith and ferocity.

President Bush and diplomats from the West have taken great pains to point out that the war on Mr. bin Laden and the Taliban of Afghanistan is not a war on Islam, but in many madrassas here in Pakistan - especially those near the border with Afghanistan - militant Muslims lecture students that the United States is a nation of Christians and Jews who are not after a single terrorist or government but are bent on the worldwide annihilation of Islam.

The madrassas' sword is in the narrow education they offer, and the devotion they engender from students from the poorest classes who, without them, would have nowhere to go, or go hungry.

At the Markaz Uloom Islamia madrassa in Peshawar, Muhammad Sabir, 22, motioned to the eerily quiet compound, devoid of students. Final exams are over, he said. The scholars, many of them, have left to fight against the United States. "They have gone for jihad," said Mr. Sabir, a student there. "It is our moral and religious duty." He said the words automatically, woodenly, as if repeating his elder's recitation of the Koran.

"There is no practical training of terrorists here," said Asif Qureishi, an Islamic scholar and the son of Maulana Mohd Yousaf Qureishi, who heads the Darul-Uloom Ashrafia madrassa in Peshawar. There are no weapons, no knives or guns, no weapons training. The madrassas hone only the mind, he said.

"We prepare them for the jihad, mentally," said Mr. Qureishi, whose duties at the madrassa include the call to prayers. In a small room at the madrassa, students nodded appreciatively at his words. Some were no more than 10.

"The minds are fresh," he said. In his tiny office, a bag of rice rests against a wall. Outside the door, a student hefts the carcass of a slaughtered goat.

What the students hear, in compounds that range from spartan to squalid, is a drumbeat of American injustice, cruelty and closed-mindedness - the United States is just that way, the elders say.

"They send cruise missiles against gravestones," said Al-Sheikh Rahat Gul, the stick-thin, 81-year-old maulana who heads Markaz Uloom Islamia in Peshawar, a madrassa with about 250 students.

The Americans kill only innocents, said the maulana, a large pair of thick-lensed, black-framed glassed sitting crookedly on his head. "The Koran forbids the killing of females, children, elders and cattle," he said. "That is war. That is not holy war." Sons of Islam must answer that tyranny with holy war, he said.

He condemns the World Trade Center attack but dismisses any connection to this part of the world. "The Jews have done this," he said, calling the attacks a plot by Israel to draw the world into war. "And the Hindus are just like them." It is repeated madrassa by madrassa, the company line of the militants and the poorer classes from which they come, spreading out from the student body to the shops and foot traffic.

Maulana Gul proudly points to a cartoon on the back of a pamphlet at his madrassa that shows Afghanistan encircled by a chain, and the chain is secured by a padlock that is labeled "United Nations." Inside the chain are weeping children. Hands reach from all directions with offerings of food, money and grain, hands are grabbed at the wrist by other hands labeled "U.S.A.," preventing that aid from getting to the starving people.

In the madrassas, students ranging in age from 7 or 8 to men over 20 are taught a strict interpretation of the Koran, including the duty of all Muslims to rise up in jihad. There are no televisions and some madrassas do not even allow transistor radios. There are no magazines or newspapers except those deemed acceptable by the elders. The outside world is closed to them, and many of the students seem puzzled when asked if they mind that. Their teachers, most of them respected elders, tell them what they need to know, the students said.

Almost all the leadership of the Taliban, including Mullah Muhammad Omar, was educated in madrassas in Pakistan - most of them in a single madrassa, Jamia Darul Uloom Haqqania in Akora Khatak in the Northwest Frontier Province of Pakistan. The anti-American protests that have filled the streets in Islamabad, Peshawar, Quetta and Karachi have been planned in madrassas - their maulanas, the elders who run the schools, are the spiritual hub of the protests.


rickross.com