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Politics : Stockman Scott's Political Debate Porch -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Jim Willie CB who wrote (47651)	5/27/2004 6:37:19 PM
From: one_less	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 89467

Iraq is corrupted and has been for generations, maybe centuries. Iraq is not Islam even if they claim it to be so. Democracy in and of Islam is the only answer: Keep in mind that the term is ‘Democracy’ is not going to appear in ancient literature since its development as a political term is relatively recent. So we need to look for structures and forms that accommodate the term Democracy and ask whether or not they are applicable. What has happened over the few hundred years to destroy democracy in the Middle East? The historical premise was to keep the Islamic community from further territorial fragmentation after the fall of the Ottoman Empire (which did encourage democracy). As a result a lot of political literatures were written not only to justify the kingship from Islamic perspective but to islamize/strengthen the kingship. A huge error in my opinion. Why: Because the basis of Islamic teaching is that we are all equal creatures in the eyes of God. Muslims know that when they pray it is shoulder to shoulder and that no one has a prestigious spot in the Mosque. All are equal a King has no more entitlement in the prayer line than a pauper. A saying from the Prophet Muhammad, as opposed to a Quranic verse, is also considered Islamic authority. The following is a saying from the Prophet Mohammad. “Every one of you is a ruler and all of you are answerable for your ‘subjects.’ and no one vicegerent is inferior to another in any respect.” Although each of us is a divine creation. None of us are more divinely correct in our thinking and decision making that any others. So, when one rises in status to be a ruler, that one must take council from the many in order to effectively lead. In the above we see the foundations of guaranteed equality as a citizen. This is what provides real basis of democracy in Islam. If you have a position as a “ruler” (Political leader) you are answerable for your subjects (those you represent and serve). What is clearly mentioned in the Qur’an (Al-Nur: 55) is the promise that every Muslim has been made God’s vicegerent; not that He will exalt some one of them as viceroy. A society in which every one is vicegerent and equal partner in vicegerency, cannot give way to class distinction, or privilege by birth or place in the society – every one shall enjoy the same status and the same rank. Preference (if any) shall be according to personal ability and conduct. Prophet Muhammad specifically mentioned this in clear terms. A true democracy entails meaningful consultation and participation in policy-decisions and accountability from top to bottom. If that is ensured, then the type of government – parliamentary, presidential, central or federative – makes no difference. In the pure Islamic governance during the days of the Prophet Mohammed and the four Caliphs, we find all shades. Yet the basic elements of consultation and accountability were always there. This was established to be a model for all future Islamic governments but no current so-called Islamic regime comes any where near this. In such a society, every sane and mature person, man or woman should enjoy the right of vote, because he or she is the bearer of vicegerency. What Westerners fear most about an Islamic state that has democracy is that there would be some sort of Bishops ruling the people. However, in Islam there is no such structure of human authority to speak for God. As a human, each is Gods vicegerant (practitioner of human decency) with absolutely equal status and no one goes between you and that relationship with God as a spokesperson for God…making all equal in the eyes of God and government. What we commonly refer to as ‘Islamic Clerics’ are simply called scholars by Muslims. The people most learned in Islamic teachings. There authority is limited to giving advice (Fatawa) on issues that we struggle with whether governmental or personal. Unfortunately that is commonly corrupted (usually by Kings) to be some sort of Pope’s order. Over time even the common citizens have come to believe that once a fatawa has been delivered they are obligated to follow it to the letter. Bottom line here: Bringing a new democracy to a region that did not have it historically is never easy and always involves breaking some new ground… look at our own history.

To: Jim Willie CB who wrote (47651)	5/27/2004 7:10:02 PM
From: Skywatcher	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 89467

well....that's the AMERICA I know.... for sure 5% feel that way.... CC

To: Jim Willie CB who wrote (47651)	5/27/2004 8:48:10 PM
From: sylvester80	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 89467

So does that make 100% of Iranian Shiites muslim fundamentalists in Iraq all angels? I'll tell you one thing. If the right wing Christian fundamentalists in this country had a clue, they would want Baathists running the country. Wait a minute... Iraq did have lots of Christians... all during Saddam. Anyone want to guess what happens to them if Iranian Shiite muslim fundamentalists take control? I'll tell you one thing. If Iraq turns out like another Iran (the way things are going its already happened - see recent post on Fallujha), we'd look back and those right wing neoCONs and Christian fundamentalists would wish that Saddam was still there with all his religion freedoms, women freedoms, secular government and his iron fist against any Iranian, Al-Qaeda and Taliban muslim fundamentalist who wanted to mess up the ONLY SECURAL muslim state in the Middle East. Unfortunately, you don't know what you've had till you get something worse, much worse. Like another Iran, or worse, another Taliban. And it's already happening...