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Politics : Stockman Scott's Political Debate Porch -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Wharf Rat who wrote (47670)	5/28/2004 12:02:41 AM
From: BubbaFred	Respond to of 89467

Something wrong with those three kinship and same roots religions - too violent, warlike, conquer and destroy, and make cadavers out of living humans.

To: Wharf Rat who wrote (47670)	5/28/2004 1:10:47 AM
From: one_less	Respond to of 89467

Jihad means to stand and struggle against injustice and corruption, and to bring decency into manifestation. It is a way of life. Since the world will always unchangeably attempt to oppress the weak and deny liberty and since there is always the attraction to get from the world by corrupt means, it is not ultimately a winnable thing, in temporal existence. It is a matter of strengthening or protecting your own soul as a mission in life, the only win comes in not succumbing to the temptations set before you that are corrupt and/or unjust. The perspective on Jihad has only been reduced to the designation "holy war" recently and this is thanks mostly to the non-Islamic media. However, since only a very small percentage of Muslims are literate (but are impacted by the media), well... you get it. We helped to mold the concept. And now the corrupt version is pretty much a universal theme. Jihad means to struggle against injustice and corruption with what ever means is available to you. You may fight to correct the injustice physically, politically, or through the system of courts and such. Lacking the opportunity to actively participate in ending injustice or corruption, you can speak against it. If for some reason you are unable to speak against it, you can form a heart felt opposition to it (for example: It would be reasonable to hold your tongue our of fear of torture or something). The main point is that you can never by your will simply accept it, go along with it, or support it. There are obviously differing types of experiences that are considered jihad. The highest level of jihad is the conquering of your inner corrupt desires to have, hold, or take of worldly things. Even though you have the right to fight to recover stolen property (a coat for example), it is considered a higher level of jihad to conquer your desire to possess the coat if you can get by without it, and to forgive the thief, who may need it. The balancing end of jihad is to not only struggle against the wrong in the world but to bring the good (compassion, charity, kindness, well being, etc) to the world. Bet you never saw this version on CNN...lol, but I promise I didn't make it up. Anyway, the "holy war" corrupt definition, unfortunately, is hopelessly entrenched in our language and experience. Just as many Muslims think of it as a part of the religion as non-muslims. We laugh at this because, the obvious hypocracy of being rewarded with 72 virgins to have your way with as a consequence for blowing up innocent targets is nonsensical...and for good reason. It is a corrupt and nonsensical interpretation of the religion.

To: Wharf Rat who wrote (47670)	5/29/2004 5:03:09 PM
From: Jim Willie CB	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 89467

notes I took after reading Bernard Lewis book I still believe most jihad chatter is a violent response to frustration in the failure of an entire Islamic empire, religion, and economy even where they had oil wealth, they have had economic failure they overspent in Saudi Arabia, just like in the USA they copied our system, developing intermediate industries wisely, but built marble cities in the sand, and built an entire Las Vegas look-alike city for sin Saudi has the largest per capital federal debt load in the world, along with 25-30% unemployment personally, I believe they accelerated their own decline after Yasser Arafat took charge of educational systems (mostly in Palestine) which preached anti-jewish thought this sentiment spread, as far as to Iran and maybe Pakistan anytime hate is the cultural emphasis, most else falters Bernard Lewis puts it well in two books he is a Princeton Professor who appears from time to time on educational TV networks much of his learning years were based upon Turkey / jim NOTES FROM LEWIS: - Islam refuses to grow its internal institutions outside the religious sector - Islam refuses to educate its women properly, but relies upon them to teach children up to age of 6 when they enter school (HALF THE POPULATION IS UNEDUCATED) - Islam for decades refused to learn foreign languages, relying instead on foreigners to come to them (THEY DID) - Islam refused to attempt to develop weapons, and rather relied upon Europeans to provide military equipment and material for them (THEY DID NOT DURING CONFLICTS, WHICH RESULTED IN THE CARVING OF TURKISH EMPIRE TO HUNGARY, RUSSIA, AND OTHERS) - Islam refused to develop an array of foreign embassies abroad, relying on foreigners instead to come to them (THEY DID) - Islam failed to provide adequate educational systems, instead allowing them to be mosque extensions, which failed to properly teach math and the sciences (THEY WERE WORLD LEADERS IN THE FIRST MILLENIUM) - Islam refuses to allow evolution politically, beyond monarchies and military dictatorships, having no sense of democracy or democratic institutions (THEIR ALTERNATIVE IS EXCLUSIVELY CLERICAL FASCISM) AN UTTER AND COMPLETE HORRENDOUS CULTURAL FAILURE WHICH HAS BEEN HEAPED UPON THE WORLD AS TERRORISM