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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Stephen O who wrote (134974)	5/30/2004 3:41:39 PM
From: smolejv@gmx.net	Respond to of 281500

haha! Gotscha. [edit] correction - should read "Teehee" (like Orr in Catch 22)

To: Stephen O who wrote (134974)	5/30/2004 4:17:24 PM
From: Jacob Snyder	Respond to of 281500

re: invading Iran, and other wishful thinking: There was a moment there, when Saddam's statue was torn down, when the tanks had finished their triumphant dash to Baghdad, when the whole nation seems to be united. Support for the President crested at 80% in the polls, and everyone was a flag-waving jingoist. But this support was always a mile wide and an inch deep. That uniformity of opinion, everyone united under the neocon's Skull And Crossbones flag, was created by false assumptions. Americans eagerly embraced the pleasant (for us) fantasy that: 1. The war wouldn't cost many American lives. 2. The war would pay for itself, since we could steal Iraqi oil. 3. Major hostilities would be over in a few days. 4. It was a defensive war, since Iraq's WMD and alliance with Al Queada threatened the U.S. 5. It was a humanitarian war, since we would transform Iraq into a stable liberal democracy, willingly allied with the U.S. The slow realization is finally sinking in, finally breaking through the Big Lies and the wishful thinking and the arrogance, that none of the above is true. Americans were never really willing to pay the actual costs of this colonial adventure. And what the Militarists could deliver, was always a small fraction of what they promised. But the Militarists keep hoping. They keep on imagining implausible scenarios, where the nation returns to that moment when the statue was toppled. They keep saying, "When this happens....." and "If only....", followed by, "....then all of America will be, once again, shouting themselves hoarse for Operation ______ Freedom". (insert here, in series, #3 thru 37 on the Axis of Evil list).

To: Stephen O who wrote (134974)	5/31/2004 6:51:31 PM
From: teevee	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

You are absolutely nuts. Just because some hotheads sign up to kill themselves you think the USA will invade Iran. Listen and listen good.....these same hotheads live in a country on the verge of acquiring nuclear weapons and god only knows what other WMD's they already have. Invading Iran is justified under the Bush doctrine of pre-emtive war. Can you imagine the destabilization effect of an Iran with nuclear weapons in the middle east? America cannot abide a Moslem nuclear power, especially one that signs mega oil development deals with other nations dedicating oil from those new fields not to the global oil market, but to certain national economies. What will happen as old fields are depleted and and production from new fields grows larger? Oil will be alientated from the US economy at any price, threatening US security, economic and military power and America's global hegemony. I am confident the new regime in Iraq will invite the US military to stay. This will facilitate a forward land base to prepare for a blitzgrieg attack to capture Tehran similar to how Bagdad was taken. I don't expect this to happen until after the election. This will allow the fall and winter to prepare for a spring attack. What will it take before you wake up and smell the coffee? Are you waiting for terrorists to highjack a plane in the middle east and crash it into a Saudi refining centre, knocking as much as 7 million barrels/day out of the world oil market for 3 to 4 months? If that happened, the democrats crying for Bush to open the strategic oil reserve will be glad he didn't.