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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Dr. Id who wrote (135043)	5/31/2004 1:28:57 AM
From: Dr. Id	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Kurt Vonnegut Part 2: But back to people, like Confucius and Jesus and my son the doctor, Mark, who’ve said how we could behave more humanely, and maybe make the world a less painful place. One of my favorites is Eugene Debs, from Terre Haute in my native state of Indiana. Get a load of this: Eugene Debs, who died back in 1926, when I was only 4, ran 5 times as the Socialist Party candidate for president, winning 900,000 votes, 6 percent of the popular vote, in 1912, if you can imagine such a ballot. He had this to say while campaigning: As long as there is a lower class, I am in it. As long as there is a criminal element, I’m of it. As long as there is a soul in prison, I am not free. Doesn’t anything socialistic make you want to throw up? Like great public schools or health insurance for all? How about Jesus’ Sermon on the Mount, the Beatitudes? Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the Earth. Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy. Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the children of God. … And so on. Not exactly planks in a Republican platform. Not exactly Donald Rumsfeld or Dick Cheney stuff. For some reason, the most vocal Christians among us never mention the Beatitudes. But, often with tears in their eyes, they demand that the Ten Commandments be posted in public buildings. And of course that’s Moses, not Jesus. I haven’t heard one of them demand that the Sermon on the Mount, the Beatitudes, be posted anywhere. “Blessed are the merciful” in a courtroom? “Blessed are the peacemakers” in the Pentagon? Give me a break!

To: Dr. Id who wrote (135043)	5/31/2004 11:52:35 AM
From: Lou Weed	Respond to of 281500

Dr......thanks for posting the Vonnegut piece. Agree with him whole-heartedly. You know, speaking of the whole religion thing, here's one for you. There's a guy I work with whose a very well respected member of some very lucrative, born-again, penetecostal/evangelical franchise here in town. Very right wing as you would expect. Anyway, we got talking about the war etc. and the subject of prison abuse and the wedding tragedy came up. After going back and forth in total disagreement on both issues he says.....who gives a s* anyway, they're all f*in Muslims and we should just turn the place into a parking lot!!! I guess I touched on a raw nerve! Of course, this reply was followed by a rousing cheer from at least 4 or 5 other peers who were eavesdropping. Off they went thinking.....we showed that dumbass liberal foreigner. Sign of the times my friend. So sad........ MON.

To: Dr. Id who wrote (135043)	5/31/2004 5:36:50 PM
From: Hawkmoon	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

The Chinese also gave us, via Marco Polo, pasta and the formula for gunpowder. The Chinese were so dumb they only used gunpowder for fireworks. What the #$%K!!! Vonnegut is really apparently losing it... The fact is that the Chinese were using rockets as weapons of war FAR EARLIER than the Europeans: spacetoday.org geocities.com How can he expect people to find his arguments credible when he makes such a glaring historical error.. And it has to be an error.. Because I certainly can't see any intentional irony on his part that suggests he knows this.. But all I have to do is get on the internet to find inumerable sources discussing Chinese military rocketry. I suggest that the Chinese are not nearly as dumb as Vonnegut would have us all believe, then, or now... Hawk