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Politics : Idea Of The Day -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: IQBAL LATIF who wrote (46366)	6/1/2004 3:21:34 AM
From: IQBAL LATIF	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 50167

Change is difficult, chaos is preamble of construction when 'Nations' break status quo they go through a major chaos and faint hearted instant gratification oriented people cannot understand this dimension,take any nation breaking the shackles of slavery it needs some sacrifices, Iraq has never been a nation it is a product of circumstances after first world war these ethnic tribes and sectarians minorities have been chained together by external forces sometime by moral authority others by draconian rule of baathists. The very reason that Shiites can dissent now is a very major change, 'freedom of man' is a very important issue that we are concerned with, for me ability to dissent is the only sign of freedom, that is first green offshoot of Iraq, 50 million people are dissenting they are also releasing that is the only way forward is to be together, the option of civil war is completely alien to southern Arab societies and war of north and south is just not feasible in a society that has deep linguistic and social linkages like comparisons to Nigeria, Iraq will emerge very strong from these dark days, Nation redesigning or recalliberating of priorities is not external issues and probably it is wrong to expect from US to do it, it is nations that they learn themselves and most of the time it is through hard way. The 'Shiite of Iraq' is not the 'Shiite of Iran,' the basic difference between Sistani and Khomieni school of thought where one believes in religion out of politics and other a part of it will have its own positive impact. Generals have never been able to comprehend social structures beyond realms of war, and they all will be proven wrong, US intervention was right, it has started a huge phenomenon of inward looking and self discovery of Muslim societies, we could not have these huge globalised economy if we are not inclusive, we need to include all these people as a part of global economy integrate them, localization of dispute and commercialization of thought is the reason for close views, we with a big frame have a different views in the darkest days British elite always thought that Churchill is on path of self destruction, BUsh is on the path of tryst with the history, Churchillian heroics cannot be appreciated by small minds and egomanics like Krugmans, it took solid 5 years and than huge rebuilding efforts when land of Beethoven with richest of traditions could come back and join the comity of Nations, even today the Germans strategists fail to live up and accept the responsibility. I am very positive that change will happen and we are seeing one it is sad that many of us do not have that patience or long view to appreciate. The more abuses I get on this thread the better I feel, I know that 'change' cannot be comprehended by minds bent on instant gratification.

To: IQBAL LATIF who wrote (46366)	6/1/2004 11:09:21 AM
From: malibuca	Respond to of 50167

Yes, you are so right Definition of a "Chickenhawk": Chickenhawk n. A person enthusiastic about war, provided someone else fights it; particularly when that enthusiasm is undimmed by personal experience with war; most emphatically when that lack of experience came in spite of ample opportunity in that person’s youth. Here is a list of some prominent politicians and media types and their record when it came to serving their country in uniform. Note that almost all of the proponents of the war with Iraq either avoided serving in the armed forces or were were out of harms way. I have no doubt that the host of this thread never served in uniform for any country and he carefully shelters his sons from any danger of combat even as he urges that military force is used around the globe to defeat terrorism – whether real or contrived. In time to come when Mr. Latif is asked what he and his sons were doing when the war on terrorism was being waged he will doubtless say that they were just way too busy introducing Pakistan to the culinary delights of western cuisine such as Dunkin Donuts! This list has been around a while and is about as fair and balanced as is Fox news – but it does show the hypocrisy of many of those in power – who got us into Iraq and who fit the definition of a chickenhawk! Prominent Democrats • Representative Richard Gephardt, former House Minority Leader - Missouri Air National Guard, 1965-71. • Representative David Bonior - Staff Sgt., United States Air Force 1968-72 • Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle - 1st Lt., U.S. Air Force SAC 1969-72 • Former Vice President Al Gore - enlisted August 1969; sent to Vietnam January 1971 as an army journalist, assigned to the 20th Engineer Brigade headquartered at Bien Hoa, an airbase twenty miles northeast of Saigon. • Former Senator Bob Kerrey... Democrat... Lt. j.g., U.S. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor, Vietnam • Senator Daniel Inouye, US Army 1943-'47; Medal of Honor, World War Two • Senator John Kerry, Lt., U.S. Navy 1966-70; Silver Star, Bronze Star with Combat V, and three awards of the Purple Heart for his service in combat • Representative Charles Rangel, Staff Sgt., U.S. Army 1948-52; Bronze Star, Korea • Former Senator Max Cleland, Captain, U.S. Army 1965-68; Silver Star & Bronze Star, Vietnam • Senator Ted Kennedy (D-MA) - U.S. Army, 1951-1953. • Senator Tom Harkin (D-IA) - Lt., U.S. Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve, 1968-74. • Senator Jack Reed (D-RI) - U.S. Army Ranger, 1971-1979; Captain, Army Reserve 1979-91 • Senator Fritz Hollings (D-SC) - served as a U.S. Army officer in World War II, receiving the Bronze Star and seven campaign ribbons. • Representative Leonard Boswell (D-IA) - Lt. Col., U.S. Army 1956-76; two tours in Vietnam, two Distinguished Flying Crosses as a helicopter pilot, two Bronze Stars, and the Soldier's Medal. • Former Representative "Pete" Peterson, Air Force Captain, POW, Ambassador to Viet Nam, and recipient of the Purple Heart, the Silver Star and the Legion of Merit. • Rep. Mike Thompson, D-CA: Staff sergeant/platoon leader with the 173rd Airborne Brigade, U.S. Army; was wounded and received a Purple Heart. • Bill McBride, Democratic Candidate for Florida Governor - volunteered and served as a U.S. Marine in Vietnam; awarded Bronze Star with a combat "V." • Gray Davis, former California Governor, Army Captain in Vietnam; received Bronze Star. • Pete Stark, D-CA, served in the Air Force 1955-57 Prominent Republicans • Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert - avoided the draft, did not serve. • Former House Majority Leader Dick Armey - avoided the draft, did not serve. • House Majority Leader Tom Delay - avoided the draft, did not serve. "So many minority youths had volunteered ... that there was literally no room for patriotic folks like himself." • House Majority Whip Roy Blunt - did not serve • Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist - did not serve. • Majority Whip Mitch McConnell, R-KY - did not serve • Rick Santorum, R-PA, third ranking Republican in the Senate - did not serve. • Former Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott - avoided the draft, did not serve. • Secretary of Defense Don Rumsfeld - served in the U.S. Navy (1954-57) as an aviator and flight instructor. • GW Bush - decided that a six-year Nat'l Guard commitment really means four years. Still says that he's "been to war." Huh? • VP Cheney - several deferments the last by marriage (in his own words, "had other priorities than military service") • Eliot Abrams, did not serve • Paul Wolfowitz, did not serve • Att'y Gen. John Ashcroft - did not serve; received seven deferment to teach business ed at SW Missouri State • Richard Perle, did not serve • Jeb Bush, Florida Governor - did not serve. • Karl Rove - avoided the draft, did not serve, too busy being a Republican. • Former Speaker Newt Gingrich - avoided the draft, did not serve) • Former President Ronald Reagan - due to poor eyesight, served in a noncombat role making movies for the Army in southern California during WWII. He later seems to have confused his role as an actor playing a tail gunner with the real thing. • "B-1" Bob Dornan - avoided Korean War combat duty by enrolling in college acting classes (Orange County Weekly article). Enlisted only after the fighting was over in Korea. • Phil Gramm - avoided the draft, did not serve, four (?) student deferments • Senator John McCain - McCain's naval honors include the Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of Merit, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross. Why did the Bush campaign smear him so? At least Senators Cleland (D-GA), Kerry (D-MA), Kerrey (D-NE), Robb (D-VA) and Hagel (R-NE) defended him. • Former Senator Bob Dole - an honorable man and a war hero • Chuck Hagel - two Purple Hearts and a Bronze Star, Vietnam. • Duke Cunningham - nominated for the Medal of Honor, received the Navy Cross, two Silver Stars, fifteen Air Medals, the Purple Heart, and several other decorations • Senator Jeff Sessions U.S. Army Reserves, 1973-1986 • Colin Powell. What are we to make of Powell? On the one hand, a long career as a military manager. On the other hand, accused of covering up the My Lai massacre. Back on that first hand, one of the seemingly sane voices in this administration when it comes to Iraq (or at least he used to be). On the other hand, a clear hypocrite ("I am angry that so many of the sons of the powerful and well-placed... managed to wangle slots in Reserve and National Guard units...") • Representative Wayne Gilchrest (R-MD), served in USMC in Vietnam; wounded in action. Here are a few more: Democrats • Gray Davis, former California Governor, Army Captain in Vietnam; received Bronze Star. • Chuck Robb, US Senator from Virginia, served in Vietnam • Howell Heflin... Democrat... Silver Star • George McGovern, famous liberal, awarded Silver Star & DFC, dozens of missions during WWII. • Pete Stark, D-CA, served in the Air Force • Former President Bill Clinton - avoided the draft through student deferments; in the autumn of 1969 • Former President Jimmy Carter, most recent recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize, seven years in the Navy. "Except for his fellow service-academy graduate Dwight Eisenhower, no President of the twentieth century spent more years in uniform than Carter." (New Yorker Magazine) • Former Vice President Walter Mondale, U.S. Army 1951-1953 • Former Senator John Glenn, D-OH (1974-1999) - Served in WWII and Korea; extensive military commendations include the Distinguished Flying Cross on six occasions, and the Air Medal with 18 Clusters. • Congressman Tom Lantos, D-CA - Did not serve in the US military; did serve in the Hungarian anti-Nazi underground in WWII. Saved by Raoul Wallenberg, is the only Holocaust survivor to serve in Congress. Republicans/Conservatives • Senator Don Nickles, R-OK - Oklahoma - Biography does not list military service. However, CNN lists Army National Guard service 1970-1976. • Senator Richard Shelby, did not serve • Senator Jon Kyl, R-AZ - did not serve • Senator Tim Hutchison, R-AR - did not serve • Rep. Christopher Cox, R-CA, fifth-ranking Republican in Congress - did not serve. • Representative Saxby Chambliss, Georgia - did not serve, had a "bad knee" (yet somehow feels he has a right to attack Max Cleland's patriotism) • Former Representative JC Watts - did not serve • Jack Kemp, did not serve (was unfit because of a knee injury, though he heroically continued as a National Football League quarterback for another eight years - source) • Former Vice President Dan Quayle, avoided Vietnam service, got a slot in the journalism unit of the Indiana National Guard when the unit was at 150% capacity (at least he showed up for his duty, unlike GW) • Former Representative Vin Weber, did not serve • Rudy Giuliani, did not serve • Michael Bloomberg, did not serve • George Pataki, did not serve • Spencer Abraham, did not serve • John Engler, did not serve • Lindsey Graham (R-SC) - website used to claim service as a "Operation Desert Shield and Desert Storm veteran." A current biographical website makes no such claim. In reality, was a National Guard lawyer who never left South Carolina during the Gulf War. • Rep. Dana Rohrabacher, R-CA, did not serve • Rep. Darrell Issa, R-CA/49th, there were some problems with his service. • Rep. John M. McHugh, R-NY - avoided the draft, did not serve • George Herbert Walker Bush, pilot in WWII. Shot down by the Japanese; was lone survivor out of airplane • Tom Ridge, Bronze Star for Valor in Vietnam • Representative Sam R. Johnson, combat missions in both Korea and Vietnam, POW in Hanoi from April 1966 to February 1973 (don't ever run for president Sam, they'll spread rumors that you're crazy) • Senator Ted Stevens, R-AK, WW II pilot, two Distinguished Flying Crosses, two Air Medals, and the Yuan Hai medal awarded by the Republic of China. • Sen. John Warner, R-VA - Served in the Navy during WWII as a RM3 • Congresswoman Heather Wilson, R-NM, served in the Air Force 1978-1989 • Former President Gerald Ford, served in the Navy, WWII • Former Senator Strom Thurmond - apparently believes, along with Trent Lott, that America should have been a segregated society. Still, he served. Punditocracy and Preacher-types • George Will, did not serve • Chris Matthews, did not serve. • Bill O'Reilly, did not serve • Paul Gigot, did not serve. • Bill Bennett, Did not serve • Pat Buchanan, did not serve • Rush Limbaugh, did not serve (4-F with a 'pilonidal cyst' - which apparently is an anal cyst • Michael Savage (aka Michael Alan Weiner) - did not serve, too busy chasing herbs and botany degrees in Hawaii and Fiji • Pat Robertson - claimed during 1986 campaign to be a "combat veteran." In reality, was a "Liquor Officer." • Bill Kristol, did not serve • Sean Hannity, did not serve. • Kenneth Starr, did not serve • Antonin Scalia, did not serve • Clarence Thomas, did not serve • Ralph Reed, did not serve • Michael Medved, did not serve • Charlie Daniels, did not serve • Ted Nugent, did not serve • Ollie North - Involved in the Iran-Contra scandal, at least he served. Independents • Gov. Jesse Ventura, U.S. Navy SEAL training • Senator Jim Jeffords, U.S. Navy 1956-1959 Affliation not known • Iqbal Latif - no known record of serving in the military in the war against terrorism - perhaps he was too busy opening Dunkin Donut shops in Pakistan • Iqbal Latif's sons - could not serve according to their father because they were not US citizens otherwise they would doubtless have been at the forefront of the war against terror.

To: IQBAL LATIF who wrote (46366)	6/2/2004 1:54:38 AM
From: IQBAL LATIF	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 50167

Governments to be dismissed soon for failure to stem terrorism, Peshawar mullahs government may also be thrown out! Major political shakeup in the offing? Staff Report dailytimes.com.pk Islamabad: Despite denials by senior government officials, Daily Times sources insist that it is only a matter of time before the Sindh political dispensation is wrapped up by President Pervez Musharraf. Islamabad is also rife with whispers that President Musharraf is unhappy with Prime Minister Zafarullah Jamali for various reasons and has asked him to step aside. Mr Jamali, say sources, has declined to do so. Since the budget session is due soon, sources said that any in-house change will most probably come after the budget session is over. In view of the impending change, prime ministerial hopefuls like Khurshid Kasuri, the foreign minister, and Hamayun Akhtar Rehman, the commerce minister, are redoubling their efforts to present themselves as viable alternatives to Mr Jamali, said sources. Sources claimed that President Musharraf has apparently given the Sindh government a short time frame and a new action plan in which to sort out the violent mess in Karachi, failing which he may sack both the Sindh governor and the chief minister and impose Governor’s Rule under a new handpicked governor. Mr Jamali’s fate, said sources, was sealed several months ago when a perception was created in the minds of the advisers of President Musharraf that the prime minister could not deliver on good governance or help him fend his way in negotiations with the MMA on the issue of the LFO and the 17th constitutional amendment. Later Mr Jamali’s opposition to the National Security Council made matters worse. In due course, tensions between Mr Jamali and Chaudhry Shujaat Hussain erupted over matters of appointments and administrative control, which became acute when Mr Jamali lobbied with Pir Pagaro and tried to stop Chaudhry Shujaat from seizing full control of the unified Muslim League. Mr Jamali’s relations with President Musharraf’s right hand man, Tariq Aziz, the secretary of the National Security Council, are said to be decidedly cool. Mr Aziz is also the biggest benefactor of the Chaudries of Gujrat. In this context, the Punjab Chief Minister, Chaudhry Pervez Elahi, is also said to be quietly lobbying for the post of prime minister. If there were to be an in-house change in Islamabad, diplomatic sources told Daily Times that Pakistan’s biggest benefactor, the United States of America, would turn a blind eye to it as an internal matter of Pakistan. Washington considers General Musharraf to be an invaluable ally at the moment and will not do anything to upset his apple cart provided the semblance of “business as usual” under the formal rules of democracy is maintained. Sources also confirmed that General Musharraf would prefer that Mr Jamali voluntarily step aside and enable the president to choose his successor without too much turmoil in parliament. “But if he refuses to do so, then the president and army chief will have no choice but to lean on him and failing that to contrive a revolt against him in parliament,” said the source. Using his powers under 58-2B could be a messy exercise since it would be open to judicial challenge.