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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: GST who wrote (136068)	6/9/2004 5:12:56 PM
From: jlallen	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

I'd say that's a bit of hyperbole..... The President has specifically renounced the use of torture (if that's what really happened) as in Abu Gharib.....

To: GST who wrote (136068)	6/9/2004 8:56:28 PM
From: Sarmad Y. Hermiz	Respond to of 281500

>> The US is no longer guided by principles I don't know why you say "no longer". Seems to me just a continuation of being the same as any other self-serving ruling group. I think it is a mistake to say the US is more evil than other countries. It is more accurate to say there is no ground for the self-justifying drivel that you see here and from the leaders. But hey, if they didn't spew out drivel, the morons wouldn't vote for them. Jimmy Carter is the only US president who tried to run US foreign policy with a consideration for moral values. And he was not re-elected, once it was found out that he was going to not kill and torture for the sake of empire. So pretty much by definition, US foreign policy is run for the self-interest of whoever is running it.

To: GST who wrote (136068)	6/10/2004 1:38:53 AM
From: Jacob Snyder	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

THE MYTH OF REDEMPTIVE VIOLENCE: The myth of redemptive violence defends the belief that violence saves, that war brings peace, that might makes right, that we can conquer violence with violence. It is one of the oldest stories in the world. It, and not Judaism, Christianity or Islam, is the dominant religion in society today. The myth of redemptive violence speaks for God, it does not listen for God to speak. It invokes God’s sovereignty as its own. It appropriates Christian language, symbols, scriptures. Its God is the tribe, worshiped as an idol. Its metaphor is not the journey but the fortress. Its offer is not forgiveness but victory. Its good news is not the unconditional love of enemies but their final elimination. Its salvation is not a new heart but a successful foreign policy. It usurps the revelation of God’s purposes for humanity in Jesus. It is blasphemous. It is idolatrous. It is immensely popular. A significant aspect of the myth of redemptive violence is its contribution to international conflict – there the survival and welfare of the nation becomes the highest earthly and heavenly good. Nationalism is made absolute. There can be no other gods before the nation. The myth of redemptive violence serves as the inner spirituality of the national security state and it provides divine legitimation for the suppression of poor people everywhere. It has been carefully and thoroughly inculcated in us from our mothers' wombs. It is the story line of our nation's history, of kids' books and cartoons, of TV and movie, of history from Christopher Columbus to George W. Bush – from conquest of land from native peoples, Mexicans, the French and Spanish and English, from Revolutionary War - it is a history of wars and justification of wars. The domination system is characterized by: • Unjust economic relationships • Biased race relationships • Hierarchical power relationships • Oppressive political relationships • Patriarchal gender relationships • Exploitative relationship with the earth • And violence to maintain the system • And the law to enforce it That's where we are. That's why we are in the morass we are in. Practical Nonviolence rests on 3 basic principles: 1. ends and means are consistent 2. respect for the rule of law which discourages frivolous violations of the law 3. don't become what you hate. It works. We've seen it work. We've seen the bush burning and not being consumed (one of the stories of our tradition that can seem so mysterious until we get inside it and see evidence of it today. We can see it. We saw it in Gandhi, in King… We saw it in 1989–90 - miracles of transformation. 1.7 billion People (32% of humanity) experienced nonviolent revolutions. Except in China all succeeded. Except in Romania and part of the southernmost USSR , all were completely peaceful. If we add countries touched by major nonviolent actions in the 20 th century, the figure reaches almost 3 billion people involved and radically affected. By Liz McAlister, May 2004 jonahhouse.org