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Politics : Should God be replaced? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Greg or e who wrote (17762)6/10/2004 1:44:09 PM
From: Solon  Respond to of 28931
 
"That God's Law is written on every mans heart is so obvious that all you have to argue against it are red herrings and tortured reasoning"

Most people of the world do not believe in your God. And hordes of religious people in the world are at odds with one another because of different values and due to the fact that morality is relative and a question of perspective, opinion, and personal values.

All of this is so obvious a child may understand it. But you [with your childlike mind] feel needful of fairy tales to comfort you.

Your non response to the post {that is to say...other than your expected irrelevancies} demonstrates both your character and your complete resignation.

The fact is that the knowledge that the practice of slavery and the execution of recanting Christians was wrong was NOT written on the heart of Thomas Aquinas. He believed they were RIGHT and MORAL actions. And he believed it in conjunction with piety and a devoted obedience to the Will of his God. It either was written on his heart or it was not, Greg...LOL.

Yes....you can go back to bed with your "flu", now.

Message 20209169



To: Greg or e who wrote (17762)6/10/2004 2:03:10 PM
From: Solon  Respond to of 28931
 
"As a matter of fact most of your ancient hero's (take Solon for example) owned slaves and also slept with little boys"

Once again you express and confirm the relativity of morality. But you also express your asbysmal ignorance of history.

ragz-international.com

"...Of all grievances, the most urgent was the condition of the poorer class of debtors. To their relief Solon's first measure, the memorable Seisachtheia, or shaking off of burdens, was directed. The relief which it afforded was complete and immediate. It cancelled at once all those contracts in which the debtor had borrowed on the security either of his person or of his land: it forbade all future loans or contracts in which the person of the debtor was pledged as security: it deprived the creditor in future of all power to imprison, or enslave, or extort work, from his debtor, and confined him to an effective judgment at law authorizing the seizure of the property of the latter. It swept off all the numerous mortgage pillars from the landed properties in Attica, leaving the land free from all past claims. It liberated and restored to their full rights all debtors actually in slavery under previous legal adjudication; and it even provided the means (we do not know how) of repurchasing in foreign lands, and bringing back to a renewed life of liberty in Attica, many insolvents who had been sold for exportation. And while Solon forbade every Athenian to pledge or sell his own person into slavery, he took a step farther in the same direction by forbidding him to pledge or sell his son, his daughter, or an unmarried sister under his tutelage - excepting only the case in which either of the latter might be detected in unchastity. Whether this last ordinance was contemporaneous with the Seisachtheia, or followed as one of his subsequent reforms, seems doubtful..."

So even though morality is relative...it got more objective and rational under Solon and that is why he is known as the father of democracy.

"...We have only to regret that we are deprived of the means of following more in detail his noble and exemplary character. He represents the best tendencies of his age, combined with much that is personally excellent: the improved ethical sensibility; the thirst for enlarged knowledge and observation, not less potent in old age than in youth; the conception of regularized popular institutions, departing sensibly from the type and spirit of the governments around him, and calculated to found a new character in the Athenian people; a genuine and reflecting sympathy with the mass of the poor, anxious not merely to rescue them from the oppressions of the rich, but also to create in them habits of self-relying industry; lastly, during his temporary possession of a power altogether arbitrary, not merely an absence of all selfish ambition, but a rare discretion in seizing the mean between conflicting exigencies."



To: Greg or e who wrote (17762)6/10/2004 2:19:02 PM
From: Solon  Respond to of 28931
 
"As a matter of fact most of your ancient hero's (take Solon for example) owned slaves and also slept with little boys"

LOL. Solon did NOT sleep with little boys. As a matter of fact he declared the death penalty for any "unauthorized adult male who mingled in a schoolyard with boys below the age of puberty".

However, bisexuality was perhaps the norm at the time of Solon:

fordham.edu

"Origins of cultural homosexuality are better found in the social life of the 7th and 6th centuries rather than in any historical event. Greece was more settled than in the 8th and early 7th centuries. We have evidence of a growing population - the number of graves in Attica increased six-fold [5]- and bigger cities. The position of women was down graded in cities where only men were citizens. In the cities new social settings grew up for men; in gymnasiums men wrestled and ran naked; the symposium or drinking party became a part of city life, and again it was men only. In this situation homosexuality came to the fore. This seems to have been a period of cultural openness and the Greeks had no revealed books to tell them that homosexuality was wrong {CHUCKLE}. It is an oddity of our culture that men often refuse to acknowledge the beauty of another man. The Greeks had no such inhibitions. They were meeting each other daily in male only settings, women were less an less seen as emotional equals and there was no religious prohibition of the bisexuality every human being is physically equipped to express. At the same time there was an artistic flowering in both poetry and visual arts. A cultural nexus of art and homosexual eros was thus established and homosexuality became a continuing part of Greek culture."

Here is a QUEER TIMELINE so that you may see how relative and everchanging have been the views throughout history on such matters as acceptable and unacceptable sexual behaviours. Written on their hearts, indeed***

The homosexual Athenians no more believed they were doing wrong than did the pious and devout Aquinas when he sanctioned the killing of people for having freedom of conscience. Right and Wrong are whatever people believe them to be. It does not get much more obvious than that. Look at the religions, look at the wars, look at the Nations, look at history, look at culture, and look at yourself.

jahsonic.com