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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Jacob Snyder who wrote (136634)	6/14/2004 4:34:38 PM
From: Hawkmoon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

They will get in bed with anybody, and do anything, if gets them what they want (or what they think they want). They are thieves and liars, habitually. Can you find a post when I said otherwise? I don't believe I've seen a post where you've discussed your feelings about it previously. People who act on principles, are quite rare. And people who not only act on principles, but end up running nations, are as rare as palm trees in Alaska. And regardless of what many of you want to assert, I believe that Bush acted on principle with regard to Iraq. He surely knew some semblance of the risk he was taking when he decided to enforce those UNSC resolutions in the face of a minority veto by the other SELF-INTERESTED AND CORRUPT Permanent members of the UNSC. I don't mind criticism of US policy in this matter. There is more than enough blame to go around from things American administrations have, or haven't done, properly. But it's really high time to share some of that blame and QUIT LETTING SOME OF THESE FOLKS AVOID TAKING THEIR SHARE OF THE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE CONDITION OF THE MID-EAST, including the regimes that are currently in power in the region. And I'd like to start seeing this administration, and even John Kerry, pushing this Oil for Food scandal in order to generate some cooperation on the part of Chirac and Putin. I think some of that is responsible for what cooperation we've received lately, such as at the G8 meeting, but I think we shouldn't pussy foot around about making it known how p*ssed off we are and to what lengths we're willing to go to expose this scandal. American lives are on the line here. Hawk

To: Jacob Snyder who wrote (136634)	6/14/2004 4:46:50 PM
From: Maurice Winn	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 281500

<Sure, France and Russia are run by cynical opportunists who pose as humanitarians. They will get in bed with anybody, and do anything, if gets them what they want (or what they think they want). They are thieves and liars, habitually.> Russia is saying they'd consider forgiving the loans they made to Iraq, provided their USSR loans are forgiven too. That's a good point. Anyone who loaned money to the Nazis, the USSR, China, and even democratic countries such as the USA, can't reasonably complain when new people take over the country and repudiate the loans. Loans to states are inherently to temporary rulers whose right to incur debt on behalf of people who oppose them, let alone those who have not even been born, is questionable at best and seems absurd to me. The lenders are asking for trouble if they lend to places like Saddam's Iraq, where there is an absolute ruler who personally is the beneficiary of the money. Similarly in the case of the USSR of communist totalitarian rule. Lenders to democracies are similarly foolish. I am opposed to nearly all government spending in New Zealand, and do what I reasonably can to stop the government having the right to spend money on my behalf [supporting act.org.nz for example]. I don't see why the feminazis of Helengrad borrowing $billions for nefarious purposes should mean me and my offspring and yet unborn grandchildren should honour their debts. I will vote to repudiate state borrowing. Lenders should first understand the reliability of their borrowers. States are inherently unreliable, which is contrary to the usual mantra that governments are the most reliable borrowers. Governments have a very short life span [usually something like 5 years]. Individuals have life spans of about 70 years. Individuals have a life-time reputation to maintain which includes credit risk. States don't have to be credible for so long. Individuals borrow only on their own behalf, whereas governments borrow using the credit of some to finance the borrowings of others - that's absurd. Mqurice