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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Mary Cluney who wrote (136730)	6/15/2004 1:30:19 PM
From: KLP	Respond to of 281500

If you had ALL the attributes needed to be President, would you consider running, and would your family want you to do so?

To: Mary Cluney who wrote (136730)	6/15/2004 2:28:50 PM
From: cnyndwllr	Respond to of 281500

Mary, I think you're missing the most obvious explanation for why we end up with a John Kerry and a George Bush as our two choices for President; they are the natural product of a system that weeds out the innovative, principled and independent thinkers that won't "play ball" with the self-interested, big-money donors whose fund raising efforts allow access to the extremely expensive 30-second time slot, third-grade intellectual level, media markets. Until the American public feels more personally interested in the workings of government and begins to intellectually connect to the process, we will likely continue to get what we deserve; easily manipulated and "bought and paid for" politicians whose policy decisions are generally decided by those who prop them up and push their buttons. The really principled, innovative and independent leaders will have a virtually impossible task in surviving the grinding, compromising, and degrading process that results in a run for the presidency.

To: Mary Cluney who wrote (136730)	6/16/2004 1:14:00 PM
From: Sam	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Quite objectively, I think everyone can agree that current day leaders are nowhere near the caliber of Thomas Jefferson and John Adams. Actually, (if you really want to be "objective" about it) both Jefferson and Adams had many of the same flaws that you think you "see" in today's leaders. They were each close minded in their own ways, able to rationalize behavior and actions that went directly contrary to ideals that they stated in other contexts. Owning slaves (not to mention bedding at least one of them) was only the most egregious example, in the case of Jefferson. And in their own day, both Jefferson and Adams had detractors saying some pretty harsh things about them--indeed, what people said about Clinton was mild compared to what many said about Jefferson (though he too had many who also idolized him). Adams, for his part, was seen by many as a vain, pompous, stuffy politician who couldn't lead anyone out of a smoke filled room. There were good reasons why he was a one term president. As well as his son. They were both terrible leaders and politicians. None of which means that they didn't have their own sort of genius, intelligence and decency, despite their many flaws. It means that they too were human (like, duh) and idealizing them (and the other "Founders") is simply wrong. Though certainly human.