What do you think becomes of our collective conscious (soul) after we die? It's not in the grave.
You're correct. Our soul is in hades.
At death, your spirit (ie nephesh) goes back to God Who gave it.(Eccl. 12:7) Your soul goes to hades(the unseen or imperceptible - as in unconscious)(Acts 2:27) and the person is said to be "in the grave" (John 5:28). Without the life giving spirit (ie nephesh) imparted by God (that's the spirit that Christ commended back to the Father when He expired on the cross((yes, Christ actually did die on the cross))), we have no soul. "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life(the aforementioned "spirit/nephesh", and man became a living soul. Without that "spirit/nephesh", man is simply "dead".
So we don't really die when we're dead? I guess that eliminates the wages of sin huh James.
Still believing satan's lie: that thou shalt not surely die
What about all the scripture that says otherwise?
Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they must die, but the dead know not anything.
Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might, for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave wither thou goest.
Ecclesiastes 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts, even one thing befalleth them, as the one dieth, so dieth the other, yea, they all have one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast; for all is vanity.
Psalm 146:4 His spirit goeth forth(that nephesh thing again), He returneth to his ground, in that very day, his thoughts perish.
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but He that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
John 11:11 These things said He; and after that He saith unto him, our friend Lazarus sleepeth, but I go that I may awake him out of sleep…….14) Then said Jesus unto them plainly, “Lazarus is dead”.
Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Job 14:12 So man lieth down and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.
1 Timothy 6:16 The King of Kings and Lord of Lords, who only hath immortality.
Deuteronomy 31:16 Then said Yahweh unto Moses, Lo! Thou art about to sleep with thy fathers.
It sounds like Paul is saying that to depart is to be with Christ. Could this be because that Christ has already paid the price of sin and that our souls no longer have to wait for the sacrifice that Christ gave, once and for all, upon the Cross of Calvary?
Yet He also said after His resurrection that no one has ascended.
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but He that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
After Christ's resurrection and ascension Luke also says:
Acts 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens.
As for the Philippians verses you quoted, they don’t clearly say what you indicated:
Philippians 1:20 in accord with my premonition and expectation, that in nothing shall I be put to shame, but with all boldness, as always, now also Christ shall be magnified in my body, whether through life or through death.
21 For to me to be living is Christ, and to be dying, gain.
22 Now if it is to be living in flesh, this to me means fruit from work, and what I shall be preferring I am not making known.
23 (Yet I am being pressed out of the two, having a yearning for the solution and to be together with Christ, for it, rather, is much better.)
PAUL'S INDIFFERENCE TO DEATH from the Concordant Commentary:
Philippians 1:20 The historical record emphasizes the fact that Paul taught the things which concern our Lord Jesus Christ "with all boldness, unforbidden" (Ac.28:31).
21 If Paul lived, his efforts would further the fame of Christ: if he died a martyr's death, even that would be gain for the cause of Christ, for the martyrs proved to be the seed of the church. Paul could not be thinking of his own gain in this connection.
23 A martyr's death would claim a martyr's reward, yet Paul lived at least two years at Rome, writing his letters from thence. Undoubtedly there has been more fruit from this work than from all of his previous service.
23 The solution of Paul's dilemma, life or death (neither of which he would choose because of his longing for another, much better condition) is the resurrection life with Christ. This "solution" might be referred to the dissolution of his body at death (2Tim.4:6) if it were not set in contrast with death. The same term is used in Lu.12:36 of the breaking up of a wedding party. Words used in the physical sense are often used in a metaphysical sense in the epistles. We dissolve material things but solve spiritual problems.
alan w |
