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Politics : PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: gerard mangiardi who wrote (583363)	6/16/2004 11:14:25 AM
From: Srexley	Respond to of 769670

"If abortion is murder...." You make some good points. Because it is legal, it is not murder. It certainly is killing though. In addition to your ideas to bring the incidence down I wish it would be discussed for what it is. The pro abortion folks state it is meerly a "choice" that a woman makes, and even though most people feel guilt over it, their efforts to soften what it really is only makes MORE people comfortable with it. Most do feel guilt, but many do not. It is a choice. A choice to kill your own child.

To: gerard mangiardi who wrote (583363)	6/16/2004 10:57:29 PM
From: Johannes Pilch	Respond to of 769670

If abortion is murder than a woman that gets one is a murderer and should be tried as one. Absolutely, but there are degrees of murder. As I said in my post, depending upon the murderess, either of these degrees may apply - from the harshest, to the most lenient. Most women child-murderers of this sort perhaps might receive the more lenient judgments. In any state the person who hires a hit man is as guilty as the hit man. This case is different because the victim is a closely linked dependent upon one of the perpetrators, possibly enhancing her physical and emotional duress. I think likewise regarding, for example, the woman who murdered all of her children in, I think it was Texas. That what she did to her children should be considered murder is not to be doubted. But her circumstances warrant mercy. She had five small children, all heavily dependent upon her. She also had a history of mental instability. And apparently she had a husband who was too aloof, generally too stupid to husband her and his children. She should have been held to justice, but part of her justice, a very large part of it in my opinion, should have been mercy. Think of it abortion is certainly premeditated so it can't be a crime of passion. Because I can't see trying a woman as a murderess I can't outlaw abortion. It won't do to look at the murder of a child, see it as murder, but then ignore it because you "can't see" trying a woman abortion murderess as a murderess. Your compassion, while understandable, is deadly in its ignorance. We must always uphold what we humans are in nature and protect it, under all circumstances - even in the most uncomfortable ones. The woman is indeed a murderess and should be held to the highest standard of justice - for all our sakes (if you wish me to explain why this is important I will. But hopefully you see it already). It is best to try her, have her, and most importantly everyone else, openly acknowledge the crime against her child (against one of us) and then sentence her to the reception of help. But, above all, we must together agree about our innate value to each other. We can as a society institute policies that would bring the incidence of abortions way down from things like making birth control products available to groups... Well that does not really get at the problem. You see, we may try to lower abortion rates, but not until we ask ourselves why and then flatly answer the question truthfully. If abortion is not the murder of one of us, then why try to lower it? We know, intuitively, that abortion is indeed the murder of one of us. For the sake of ourselves, we must acknowledge this biological fact above all. Once we acknowledge it, admit it plainly. Then we might work together to find solutions to eliminating it with compassion. But we need to agree that abortion is against us. If I could get Americans to stop lying so consistently about it, to agree with me that we are murdering our kind and that we need to end these murders, I would have no problem employing mercy and compassionate solutions to abortion cases - so long as we are all in agreement that abortion trashes us, lowers our value and is therefore wrong. I don't believe any woman would have an abortion without some guilt so such programs would certainly help. But lying about the nature of abortion only makes everything worse. We have women openly declaring the moral goodness of murdering their children, and they are clearly doing it as a countermeasure against their guilt. Enabling them actually hurts them, deeply wounding and further corrupting their character. We need, all of us, to acknowledge what we are in nature, agree that abortion is hostile to it and is therefore not good. Murdering mothers, whether they cognitively understand this or not, are now isolated from humanity. Murder does this. So that the murdering mothers may rejoin us, they too need to acknowledge what humans are, accepting that abortion is the murder of it. I certainly don't wish to harm anyone. But I absolutely don't wish my identity to be distorted as pro-choicers consistently aim to distort it, claiming that at certain arbitrary phases of my development, I was worthy of cavalier murder. I am tending two baby boys, twins. They are glorious creatures. They were glorious the very moment they joined me here in nature - at conception. At no point was their value so low that they could legitimately be murdered.