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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (136919)	6/18/2004 9:32:55 AM
From: carranza2	Respond to of 281500

Interesting article. I disagree with the notion that the strategic justification for the war did not exist but I certainly agree with the notion that a moral justification is present.

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (136919)	6/18/2004 11:13:59 AM
From: Mary Cluney	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

<<< As a result, this war's moral costs have been higher than we foresaw. The deaths of any Americans, and any innocent Iraqis, would have been painful. But, because Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and President Bush refused to listen to their generals and send enough troops, hundreds of Americans and thousands of Iraqis have died needlessly. Because Rumsfeld, Bush, and Attorney General John Ashcroft winked at torture, it will take years for America to regain the moral credibility it needs to effectively champion human rights. And, just as incompetence in Somalia led to inaction in Rwanda, the Iraq war could--in a terrible irony--turn Americans against intervention the next time innocents are slaughtered. With all these tragedies, how can there still be a moral case for the war in Iraq? Because Iraqis today--no matter how scared and how bitter--are, in some meaningful sense, free.>>> What tortured logic (pardon the phrase). The architects of this war did not try to sell us on the moral case as the reason we went to war. Okay, we made a mistake. Well intentioned mistakes are made. The problem however, is that we have not admitted to any mistakes. It is something we never learn. It is often times not the mistake that is costly, but the cover up is - in this case, not owning up to mistakes. High boastings by the proud, bring sorrow to the height, to punish pride.

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (136919)	6/18/2004 2:16:48 PM
From: Rascal	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 281500

I am still frustrated by it always being positioned as War vs. noWar. The decision was between War and continued INSPECTIONS. Which would have given us time to get better information. But continued inspections did not fulfill the Administration's goal. Because the choice the Administration was making was between controlling Iraq and failure to control Iraq. Only the Administration had a tight time constraint. That is why they deployed forces before "the decision" was made. This Tactic is once again a success for the Administration as the declare "FULL sovereignty" on June 30th. Nothing changes in Iraq, except changing the CPA into the PCO. (see siliconinvestor.com And of course they needed to resort the puppets into different roles. This sham allows Negroponte (past criminal of Iran-Contra) to move into the largest Embassy ever built. Confirmation came without a whimper in Congress. Apparently Negropointe's past record is an asset in cases like this. And the Media supports them. This Administration says something over and over and over while they do the opposite. And the media reinforces their blather over and over and over. Reach and frequency, the dastardly tools which have succeeded in programming the minds of all the fearful non-critical thinkers. It's too late. We are not getting the government "we thought we had" back. Ever. We started getting the "NEW" government in the 50's just as Ike warned us about the military industrial complex. Instead, transparency is forcing us to see and accept the government we always had. I give up. Maybe you will be my sponsor and teach me how to get with the program. Rascal @Quisling.com PS. They are reporting Mr. Johnson has been beheaded as revenge for our torture of prisoners.