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Politics : Don't Blame Me, I Voted For Kerry -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: bentway who wrote (31394)	6/18/2004 3:17:28 PM
From: Wayners	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 81568

800 killed vs. 58,000 killed and an exit strategy humming along with turn over to the Iraquis occurring now. The North Vietnamese were backed by China and Soviet Union and continued their push relentlessly. The terrorists have no such military backing. They can't get sophisticated military hardware.

To: bentway who wrote (31394)	6/18/2004 7:01:02 PM
From: Rarebird	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 81568

<How can Bush admit defeat...?> On the political side, the individual American is face to face with war, out of control Federal budgets and a Federal Reserve which is madly printing US Dollars with one hand while planning to increase interest rates with the other. On the economic side, that same individual American is seeing prices of normal as well as needed things climb everywhere, while at the same time being told that everything is "fine", the economy is "growing", and new "jobs" are being created hand over fist. The sheer wonder lies in the fact that the current US political establishment as well as its current office holders in the Bush Administration keep acting as if they were themselves oblivious to these facts. A fundamental question has to arise - What are they counting on? Do you know? The totally manufactured fervor during the actual attack and invasion of Iraq has been replaced by a nagging worry that there might be no end to this. And NOW has come a potentially fatal one - two - three. Provable misconduct by American troops against Iraqi prisoners has been followed by those in the higher military ranks running away from their command responsibilities which has now been followed by their political masters not being able to explain leaked memos which authorize TORTURE!

To: bentway who wrote (31394)	6/18/2004 7:47:38 PM
From: Rarebird	Respond to of 81568

<How can Bush admit defeat?> There is a very old saying in classical logic about the absolute necessity for the liar to know the truth. If he or she doesn't know the truth, how can they lie? But to become confused between the truth and the lie can end up very badly indeed. In the history of politics, it is a near constant that many of the so- called great political men have ended up being "captured" by the exact same lies they had told for years. At that point, they too lost hold of reality and led their nations to ruin. As best as can be known, Julius Caesar never lost his grasp on reality, but he was a gambler addicted to ever higher stakes and that got him killed. His successor, Augustus, never gambled, but in stopping the advance of Rome he ensured its future decay by introducing his version of the welfare/warfare state. That, in the end, exhausted Rome. Those close to Napoleon were well aware that there were times when he lived almost exclusively in his own inner land of self-made illusions. On becoming aware of such an episode, they would say that: "His Majesty has been captured by his genius". But Napoleon lasted a long time because he could and did return to reality with a crash and, with near super-human physical and intellectual effort find unique solutions where others saw nothing but insurmountable dangers. Political men HAVE to know the HARD facts. They have to know these facts regardless of what they choose to feed the public. If they get "captured" by the lies they manufacture for others, they can lose full contact with reality. The consequences can be and usually are dire, especially if the public are themselves subject to the same politically manufactured illusions. There comes a point where there are few or none close enough to the center of political power to tell the power-wielder the hard truths. Today, this is precisely the condition of President George W. Bush.