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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Andrew N. Cothran who wrote (137024)	6/19/2004 8:31:13 AM
From: Andrew N. Cothran	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

To:Andrew N. Cothran who wrote (137023) From: Andrew N. Cothran Saturday, Jun 19, 2004 8:29 AM Respond to of 137025 The New York Times, The Washington Post, USA Today, The San Francisco Chronicle, ABC, NBC,CBS, et al So busy are these news sources reporting on the twenty six former diplomats (mostly Democrats who voted for Gore and contributed big money to the Kerry campaign) that they have no time or space to report on those who know Kerry best: those who attempted to serve with him and along side him in Viet Nam

To: Andrew N. Cothran who wrote (137024)	6/19/2004 1:00:51 PM
From: cnyndwllr	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Andrew, don't make a total idiot of yourself. There are so many holes in the straw men set up in your article about those "who served with Kerry," that anyone with their eyes open should see right through them. The fact that you endorse these attacks on Kerry says much more about you than it does about Kerry. For instance: 1. Kerry never said that "all" soldiers committed atrocities. He said that such atrocities were common in Vietnam and THEY WERE. Read some of the many books written by those who were there. I was there at about the same time as Kerry and I can assure you that all of the things that he said were occurring at that time did, in fact, take place. Among many units they were accepted practice. Why don't you read "The Cat From Hue," by Lawrence, before you jump on a high horse and accuse Kerry of lying? 2. Kerry's self confessed "war crimes" involve such things as opening up with "interdictory fire" in a free fire zone and using certain types of armaments. If you don't think that happened throughout all of Vietnam as a matter of standard practice, then you know nothing about the conduct of the war. 3. The attribution of these criticisms as coming from "men who served with Kerry" is way overstated. It should say, with one exception, "men who served at the same time as Kerry." Of the men who actually served WITH Kerry, only one man has anything to say about Kerry that is not complimentary. The others all say that Kerry had excellent courage, judgement and leadership. I don't know about you, but I put much more weight on those who fought up close and personal with him than I do on a bunch of politically involved lifers who have their own ax to grind and some of whom were REMFS. In the nomenclature of the time, that meant rear echelon MFers, and it was no compliment from those who fought. 4. The bottom line is that Kerry wasn't lying; the American military and the American Government were the liars. Kerry said it, he was right, we needed to hear it, we needed to stop it, and we did. I get tired of people who sat behind desks or never saw any real combat, or who perpetuated the lies, and who are now coming forward and whining because Kerry unveiled the truth. Kerry was right, it was a bad war, it was an unwinnable war, and it was killing the soul of America. We needed to change course and he was one of those that helped us do so. You should thank him, not resent the truth that he told and attempt to diminish his service by repeating the over the top statements of those you claim "know Kerry best." The men who "know Kerry best" are all behind him with one exception. On a personal note, I was in Vietnam, I didn't commit atrocities and I appreciate that Kerry spoke up so strongly against the war. There were far to many "last man to die" on both sides of that war and it was all an obscene waste of good men. If the "then" Joint Chiefs or the "then" Administrations had possessed the kind of courage that Kerry exhibited, many of our young people would have been spared the killing and dying they suffered and many Vietnamese would be living today instead of rotting in graves. You, and those you quote, should be ashamed.